Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

Thomas
Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
:blush:Following my charger problem, I discovered my battery melted down.
with no charger and my array on diversion charge, the inverter wouldn't behave as was....
investigation revealed that the end battery in parallel to my inverter WARPED somehow.
The only difference was that battery was completely dead, I revived it with a Speialty Concepts ASC, .
[it powered my new wind stator all night w/out a diode in line]
It was the first battery I bought. It was the first charge I bought.
MY WIND GENERATOR IS DOWN, NOT ENOUGH WIND HERE.9/29/13.[it never worked anyway, tropical storm Lee to last spring bad stator]
weathers been HOT/humid-dry. Humidity swinging like tem usually does. Batteries insulates in-doors.
Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.
What happened to my battery?
Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

Comments

  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    Wow! Glad that didn't get any worse.

    One thing I see is that there is no fuse *at the battery*! Your positive lead looks to be burnt and a fuse there may have prevented this hazard by protecting the wiring even though the battery looks like it went into thermal runaway.

    Assuming your charger is set properly, I'd replace all three of those inexpensive ups-style agm's with a SINGLE 75ah (it looks like 75ah is what you had in parallel) deep-cycle agm, fuse it properly, and use a temperature-compensation probe if your charger has that ability. Definitely verify that your charger is actually working as it should.

    I sure hope that enclosure is nowhere near your property, children or pets as the wiring looks to be totally hazardous. Looks are one thing, but seriously man, clean that up for safety's sake.
  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    The enclosure is insulated, and simplifing slowly. I just removed a voltage controlled switch/relay from the spaces and some cooling fans. I will have it nice and clean this winter for next summer. I just added a 235 watt.
    I had 3 35 ahr interstate agm batteries, all was great until I cleaned up/ consolodated / upgraded the outside.
    What is thermal runaway?
    This has been running flawlessly for about a year.
    I added a 235 watt, changed location of other panels, consolidated the outside wiring. then everything fell apart inside!
    My EKM meter indicates about 1kW a day from 1035 watts calculated about every week.
    I hate this, I go thru this when I have to change anything with my thermal solar hot water. As soon as I leave it for a few days it starts to work again, after $$!![more than the inprovement or upkeep]
    why can't one adjust solar alternatives without inuring these additional problems?
    Every time I upgrade/improve/adjust....
    any reading on this "phenomenon"
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    this is the first problem I have had since I stopped using a relay for the grid tie, the Xantrex c-35 I had with another one in divert were regulating the battery voltage and inverter with out relays. Overnight battery voltage 12.6+
    charge controll c-35 set at 14.5
    divert at 15.5
    solar array 24v
    gti on at 15v
    the grid tie would not come on with 24v, was too high for it so I regulated with divertion. Worked great all year.
    batteries frequently at 13+ overnight.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster
    Thomas wrote: »
    why can't one adjust solar alternatives without inuring these additional problems?

    Do it right the first time and you will have fewer problems. A number of 12V UPS batteries in series is not a great idea; you are much better off with a smaller number of larger, higher quality batteries. Also spend the money on good interconnects and fusing (or better yet breakers) to avoid problems with IR drop and fires.
  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    I spent some on din rail fuses and all copper interconnects/4awg.
    I was so happy when I finally got it right enough [ which I thing only amounted to enough right L power]for the xantrex's to controll without relays....even if my current at the time was all ready too high for direct load control without relays.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    wow, I discovered one of my blocking diodes..batt/inverter, blew and a battery interconnect was not attached, maybee the interconnect became dislodged when I removed the spent battery. killer cockroaches or possums? or the catalytic armadillo? I WAS connected completely in perfect parallel.[][]'[]
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    whichever was the isuue....all is opterating normally now. 14.5 linevolts to gti, 106'F, 1450 watts, 45 A.[ my meters---go figure!]
    back to adding 1kW per day to my ac grid line... and saving for more...thanks.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster
    Thomas wrote: »
    whichever was the isuue....all is opterating normally now. 14.5 linevolts to gti, 106'F, 1450 watts, 45 A.[ my meters---go figure!]
    back to adding 1kW per day to my ac grid line... and saving for more...thanks.

    Please consider doing a complete rebuild rather than adding on a few more batteries/panels/charge controllers/inverters. This time you got away with only a blown battery; the next time you may not be so lucky, and the more you add the worse such incidents become. Compare the costs of a "real" (i.e. code-compliant or at least code-like) grid tie system to the costs of a fire that destroys your home.
  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    I have seen AGMs do that just sitting completely unconnected. It doesn't *necessarily* mean something catastrophic happened. How long was it since the last time you looked at that battery and it was fine? If it was just a few days, then yes something probably happened. If it had been a couple months or more then it's possible the thing was just dying.

    I don't know what happens, my guess is as the battery sulphates the crystals take up more space than is available and cause the case to bulge since there isn't any spare room inside. The vast majority of the times I've seen this (and the worst cases) have been when I find old alarm panel batteries that have been changed out and left sitting disconnected. (I do a lot of work in mechanical rooms.) The batteries were fine when taken out of service, but after a few months they self-discharged and sulphated. I've also seen a few batteries that died in the alarm panel and when pulled out they were already bulging some. Leave them a while and the bulges get worse. I've not yet seen one split the case, not sure if that was just luck or is designed for. Some of them were remarkably swollen!

    I've also seen this at home with a UPS, the batteries were still working but with reduced capacity. I disconnected them and only a month later they were visibly bulging, though not as bad as yours. I was surprised just how quickly it happened, I hadn't noticed any deformity when I disconnected them.
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster
    RandomJoe wrote: »
    I have seen AGMs do that just sitting completely unconnected. It doesn't *necessarily* mean something catastrophic happened. How long was it since the last time you looked at that battery and it was fine? If it was just a few days, then yes something probably happened. If it had been a couple months or more then it's possible the thing was just dying.

    I don't know what happens, my guess is as the battery sulphates the crystals take up more space than is available and cause the case to bulge since there isn't any spare room inside. The vast majority of the times I've seen this (and the worst cases) have been when I find old alarm panel batteries that have been changed out and left sitting disconnected. (I do a lot of work in mechanical rooms.) The batteries were fine when taken out of service, but after a few months they self-discharged and sulphated. I've also seen a few batteries that died in the alarm panel and when pulled out they were already bulging some. Leave them a while and the bulges get worse. I've not yet seen one split the case, not sure if that was just luck or is designed for. Some of them were remarkably swollen!

    I've also seen this at home with a UPS, the batteries were still working but with reduced capacity. I disconnected them and only a month later they were visibly bulging, though not as bad as yours. I was surprised just how quickly it happened, I hadn't noticed any deformity when I disconnected them.

    Batteries like NiCad, NiMH and Lithium will more often bulge because of excess heat generation during charging or internal short circuit.
    AGM batteries are also more likely to bulge from overcharge AFAIK. Sulphate is generated during normal discharge as well as from self-discharge, and I do not think that there is any net volume difference between the soft and hard forms of the sulphate crystals.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    I believe "Positive Grid Corrosion" will "push up" or "extrude" the positive terminals on a Lead Acid Battery...Perhaps overall grid corrosion is a candidate for swollen/failing batteries.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    In the OP's case overcharging could certainly be a cause, but as I said I've seen this with completely disconnected (old) batteries too.

    The most dramatic example was a set at one jobsite I was visiting regularly for several months. When I first saw the batteries (7AH AGMs) I almost brought them home since most alarm panel batteries are replaced long before death. When I actually examined them I saw there was very slight swelling - barely visible to the eye. Okay, personal experience with that is they're junk or soon will be. I left them.

    That place doesn't clean anything up in a timely manner. Those batteries sat on the table for months! Each time I returned they were larger and larger. Last time I saw them one had distorted into a nearly spherical shape, couldn't believe the case hadn't ruptured!

    I've never let any I had at home go that far before disposing of them, but one of the two that came off the UPS (33AH or so) had sides swollen enough to look like a shrink-wrapped six-pack of soda cans. That also happened *after* being disconnected. When I quit using the UPS they were short on capacity but had no visible swelling.
  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    this battery had once been completely discharged, I had read that it would never come back up to full charge[13...] I put in parallel with 2 other identical Power Patrolls and the temp was high at GTI capacity[ 125'F at 70% capacity]. I removed it and find the temperature much more stable in the GTI, ranges from 95"f to 111"f up to full 1035 watt load. I never thought to set an alarm battery temp.[only GTI...]I had the temp sensor Xantrex connected.

    I am looking into, seriously, a "Name Brand" Grid Tie Inverter. they are not cheap. they do not work with standard 12,24,48 volt battery/panel systems.
    I want a Outback 2524 sealed. [ has enough room to grow to my roof size too] still saving/ looking for a deal.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Ruined Battery,more for the dumpster

    I think what happens is complicated as trying to explain why one cylinder in a motor would be 'dieseling. I think this is what happened, thermal runaway.[ the pictures match anyway.
    why it didn't include the others in parallel I do not know.'
    I do not think this would have happened [to my charger or battery] if I did not use a revived battery.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters