Smart meter controversy continues

CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
As one of the poor sods who's going to have to foot the bill for this I am not terribly happy that the tin hat brigade is getting away with it.

B.C. group takes BC Hydro to court over smart meters:
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-group-takes-bc-hydro-to-court-over-smart-meters-1.1385448
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Comments

  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,430Super Moderators admin
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    "They" fought the smart meters here in California too... All of those issues, plus issues of reliability/hackability, etc.

    And "they" lost. The US Government gave "free money" to develop and much of the deployment costs for smart meters.

    That resulted in the utility shutting down their gas/electric meter reader jobs. And anyone that wanted a manual read meter was just fine, as long as they paid (first $10? Later $30 per month?) for manual reading.

    In the big city, you could have your smart meter removed, but there are probably a 1/2 dozen other meters just as close to your home as your own meter...

    There were a few programming errors (both billing software and configuration of meter)... But I have not seen much in the way that has documented the meters, on average, over billing customers (me saying that a few thousand "issues" over a 10-30 million customer base is not a "huge" error).

    If the government is pushing smart meters (with "free money" and/or billing surcharges), I assume the BC folks will lose too.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    BB. wrote: »
    I assume the BC folks will lose too.

    -Bill

    We always do, Bill; we always do. ;)

    The main reason they want the smart meters here is to implement TOU billing so they can raise rates during peak usage times. This is known as the law of supply-and-demand or "price gouging".

    The secondary reason is to save on the expense of paying for meter readers, which is particularly costly in the rural areas (miles between meters sometimes).

    But neither of these issues has been brought up in the objections; it is always the fantasy health threat and paranoid invasion of privacy. Go figure.
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Posts: 1,925Solar Expert
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    About 10 year ago our utility company put a vote - either you read your own meter or pay $5/month for reading. People voted overwhelmimgly for self reading. Yet, few months later, they told that self-reading is not good and they're going to read meters by themselves, for a fee of course. Then over the years they mixed this fee with other charges and added more other fees. About two years later they installed smart meters, but didn't decrease any fees.

    I found smart meter to be accurate, and it worked very good. No cancer. But, of course, life is getting better when you no longer have a meter.
  • mtdocmtdoc Posts: 600Solar Expert
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    I live on a small lake with several homes on or near it and we're about 5 miles from any other homes. The utility sends a meter reader up here - at what cost I don't know.

    I'm one of the managers of our small community water system. A few months ago, the eletricity bill for our systems pump increased dramatically. We though we might have a system leak but after some investigation it turned out the meter reader had misread the meter by 1000 kWH.

    Smart meters? perhaps. Smart meter readers - not so much..:roll:
  • RCinFLARCinFLA Posts: 1,280Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    In Florida, Florida Power & Light has done an extensive smartmeter change out program. There has been some problems with intermittant and electrical fires after smart meter was installed on a small percent of typically older homes.

    FPL hired a contractor who in turn hired cheap contract employees that get paid a small fee based on meters they change out. Obviously they are motivated to pop out the old and in with the new as quickly as possible. Those familar with the meter connect box know they mount on snap in clips supported by an insulator base similar to old fashion large cartridge fuses. Now mix in older houses that have had their original meter in place for 30 or 40 years with a bit of water intrusion into the meter base box. As long as nothing was disturb everything continued to be fine.

    Now quickly yank out the old meter and jam in the new meter creating broken support insulators / intermittant connections in some houses. FPL considers the meter box base and wiring into and out of, up to the overhead weather head are the responsibility of the home owner. Homeowners claiming everything was fine until the meter was changed out are getting hit with $400-$700 bills from licensed electricians to repair or replace their meter box base.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    The fire problem has happened to two homes here in BC already. Of course the ignorant masses blame the meters when it's the service that is at fault. As far as I know it's still being investigated, but there are those who will accept no explanation other than the false "smart meters cause fires" one.

    Maybe if more science was taught in school and less butter sculpting?
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,430Super Moderators admin
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    There has been one problem that a friend/electrician has seen... A fair number of meters, which have the capability of shutting off power on command from the electric company were cutting 1/2 of the AC power. So, 1/2 the outlets+lights and 240 VAC appliances were failing intermittently.

    He was called out by a few customers and debugged it to the meter--Later calls he was just telling them to call the utility directly.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solar_davesolar_dave Posts: 2,335Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    I wonder if the tin hats have WiFi in their house?
  • vtmapsvtmaps Posts: 3,738Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    We still have meter readers in my part of Vermont. I am greatly amused by them. Every year or so we get a new meter reader in my area and they pull up into my driveway and start looking for the meter (I'm off grid). After awhile they usually knock on the door and ask if I know where my meter is. Sometimes I invite them in to see my trimetric, other times I go out and help them look for the non-existent meter. I am considering buying a used meter and installing it on a nearby tree to increase my amusement.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Posts: 3,009Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Sometimes I go out and help them look for the non-existent meter. I am considering buying a used meter and installing it on a nearby tree to increase my amusement.

    --vtMaps

    Hahahahaha I LOVE it! :D:D
    And if they mark down the serial # of the meter, they could trace it back to the original "owner" and start sending them a bill for the power you could make it appear to use. Hahahahaha
  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,023Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    You could tie it up with some hay wire, OR
    go Full Monte with some conduit coming out of the ground and up to disappear into the branches>>>:confused::confused:
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • SlappySlappy Posts: 251Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    vt. Meter on a outhouse would be cool. Lets call it a kill o Watt flush?
  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,023Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    OR "Oh,....., watt a Flush"

    apologies to Crowbar
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07tt4bPxL60
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,642Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    ......expense of paying for meter readers, which is particularly costly in the rural areas (miles between meters sometimes)...

    So how does the zig bee protocol work with widely spaced meters, good for a couple hundred feet, maybe 500 feet, but it won't do miles. Generally, they have a neighborhood antenna, to serve 500 meters, do they plant repeaters at the top of your power pole? That will add some EMF smog to the area.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • northernernortherner Posts: 492Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    We don't have smart meters where I live in a small town in northern Alberta, however, the utility company can still read the meters remotely. This is done with a simple add on to existing meters and is read by sending pings down the power line to the metering device, which responds to the pings. Our water meter is read in the same manner and through the same interface device on the power meter. There's no RF involved and the meter is simply read once a month for billing.

    I think the real reason for putting them in BC homes (as mentioned) is for TOU billing. But electric rates in BC are so darn low, I really don't know what people there are complaining about!
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    At this point I don't know which they will do out here; RF & repeaters (or perhaps ignore the more sparsely populated areas) or the line-ping method. We shall see.

    And yes our per kW hour is extremely low. It ought to be higher, but when it was even lower with practically no base charges they sold a lot of all-electric houses here and if they jacked the rates up on them people would be in real trouble. Not that anyone in government seems to care about that, though.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    Update: they finally installed the smart meter here in the middle of nowhere, land of limited RF transmission. This of course means I will soon die of microwave poisoning or some such nonsense. :p
  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    interesting as it says, not sync.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    niel wrote: »
    interesting as it says, not sync.

    Yes, I noticed that too and took the picture that way. I think the network isn't functioning yet and they'll still have to read them manually. Maybe we'll get lucky and the bill will be "$0.00"? Nah; never!
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Posts: 1,925Solar Expert
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    niel wrote: »
    interesting as it says, not sync.

    It also says 0.5-200A. 0.5A is 120W or almost 3kWh/day. That's over 1MWh/year!

    Some off-gridders' consumption is below the level which the meter deems to be too small to even meter.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    It also says 0.5-200A. 0.5A is 120W or almost 3kWh/day. That's over 1MWh/year!

    Some off-gridders' consumption is below the level which the meter deems to be too small to even meter.

    Yup. Mine is less than that for example.

    Edit to add: News today is that BC Hydro's rates will climb to $0.15 per kW hour in the next five years.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,430Super Moderators admin
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    Our water bill is now around $5.90 per 100 cuft (~748 Gallons). Less than 5 years ago, it was ~$1.35 per 100 cuft. Earthquake hardening laws in California--So they tell us.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SlappySlappy Posts: 251Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    Feel for ya. Ever sense they installed one here we get a Morse code like disturbance through all of our audio equipment ..TV radio computer speakers. It did not do it until right when it was installed
  • SlappySlappy Posts: 251Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    Debating about wrapping brass screen all around the meter.
  • silvertopsilvertop Posts: 155Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    It also says 0.5-200A. 0.5A is 120W or almost 3kWh/day. That's over 1MWh/year!

    Some off-gridders' consumption is below the level which the meter deems to be too small to even meter.

    Are you saying the smart meter uses 120 watts per hour? Or that it won't read below 120 watts? We have PSE and a smart meter. I would hate to think there meter burns that much! We also had a problem, they told us they don't always get a (GOOD read )they sent us estimated bills for two months and told us it doesn't matter because it is like a car odometer it always moves forward ? They too are raising the Kw charge just under .10 but the base connection charge is $ 14.99 can't jet rid of this without disconnecting ......
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Posts: 1,925Solar Expert
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    silvertop wrote: »
    Are you saying the smart meter uses 120 watts per hour? Or that it won't read below 120 watts?

    I'm saying it won't meter anything below 0.5A (120W). It certainly cannot consume that much as it would make it very hot.
  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    I'm saying it won't meter anything below 0.5A (120W). It certainly cannot consume that much as it would make it very hot.

    another way to interpret that is that every time the consumption is under 60w, it's free.
  • silvertopsilvertop Posts: 155Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    That's very interesting, perhaps that's why they didn't get a ( good read ):cry:
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues

    BC Hydro now plans to charge everyone who refuses to have a smart meter $35 per month for manual meter reading.

    Our total bill is about $5 more than that, so I have no problem with the smart meter.
  • solar_davesolar_dave Posts: 2,335Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Smart meter controversy continues
    BC Hydro now plans to charge everyone who refuses to have a smart meter $35 per month for manual meter reading.

    Our total bill is about $5 more than that, so I have no problem with the smart meter.

    Seems to me that would make a nice contract industry, I will read them for $25 a month and the Utility can make $10 for nothing.
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