Help me with choosing cables please.

OldManOwen
OldManOwen Solar Expert Posts: 25
Hello all,

I posted earlier in this thread about my plans for my F250... http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?20029-Help-me-build-a-system-for-my-F250-Super-Duty-please!

I have decided to start with a simple setup using Just a Battery, Charger (with Honda EU200i) and monitor. I need to know what cables to order from Wind&Sun to connect my Battery to the Charger and the Monitor to the Battery. The PDF for the Charger just says "Use the correct size" witch isn't much help. I'm ready to place my order and If someone could just link the correct cables from Wind&Sun it would be a HUGE help. The battery will be within 24" of the charger and I could make it closer if required. The PDF also mentions the need for a Breaker on the Positive side between the battery and Charger if I am reading it correctly so a link to the correct one would also be very helpful. I plan to add the Morningstar Inverter at a later date if that information is pertinent.

Links for the items currently in my Shopping Cart...

http://www.solar-electric.com/concorde-sunxtender-pvx-1080t.html

http://www.solar-electric.com/dls-30.html

http://www.solar-electric.com/mnbcm.html

Thank you again!

Nathan M Owen
SSGT USMC RETIRED

Katie Couric, while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked:

"What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist?"

The Marine shrugged and replied: "Recoil."

Comments

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    In my opinion, I would not consider the IOTA, an efficient charger. I use one, and while it is Robust, it does not have good Power Factor.
    I would look for an RV type inverter/charger that has a transfer switch, and use it's charger section, some of them have a good PF charger.
    Look at the http://www.solar-electric.com/mr60ampdccib.html Switch/Breaker. most DC breakers work poorly as a switch and can be worn out quickly.

    And I'm sure others will have other charger suggestions - I use a VEC1093 12V Charger for my small batteries, 40A in a lightweight package, but it's not set & forget. you have to program it at each power up. (when you pull start the generator) It too, does not have great PF, but it's versatile.

    And don't forget a vehicle battery isolator, when you run the engine, may as well charge the house batteries too.
    For the cost of the EU2000 - you can buy a lot of fuel to run the RV's engine, even at idle, large truck engines should have a beefy alternator putting out 40A at idle. Simple diode isolators shortcharge a battery, look for one with a SSR. (solid state relay)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.
    mike95490 wrote: »
    In my opinion, I would not consider the IOTA, an efficient charger. I use one, and while it is Robust, it does not have good Power Factor.
    I would look for an RV type inverter/charger that has a transfer switch, and use it's charger section, some of them have a good PF charger.
    Look at the http://www.solar-electric.com/mr60ampdccib.html Switch/Breaker. most DC breakers work poorly as a switch and can be worn out quickly.

    And I'm sure others will have other charger suggestions - I use a VEC1093 12V Charger for my small batteries, 40A in a lightweight package, but it's not set & forget. you have to program it at each power up. (when you pull start the generator) It too, does not have great PF, but it's versatile.

    And don't forget a vehicle battery isolator, when you run the engine, may as well charge the house batteries too.
    For the cost of the EU2000 - you can buy a lot of fuel to run the RV's engine, even at idle, large truck engines should have a beefy alternator putting out 40A at idle. Simple diode isolators shortcharge a battery, look for one with a SSR. (solid state relay)
    Maybe you should test you IOTA, you maybe surprised at what the PF really means..... Nothing !!

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?19402-Meanwell-PB-1000-vs-Iota-DLS-75&highlight=iota
  • OldManOwen
    OldManOwen Solar Expert Posts: 25
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    Hello again,
    Just to be clear, this is a camper shell on a pickup. It's not an "in truck camper" so space is at a premium. It will be used for dispersed camping and fishing. Thanks guys. Still need help with cable selection, I just want to complete my order!


    -Nate
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    For a 12 volt battery bank, I would suggest no more than ~0.05 to 0.10 volt drop between the charger and the battery bank. Using a simple voltage drop calculator, 30 amps, assuming 3 feet (one way run, note some calculators use 2 way wire length), we can find:
    • 3 feet of 6 awg wire carrying 30 amps -> 0.09 volt drop
    • 3 feet of 4 awg wire carrying 30 amps -> 0.04 volt drop

    You have not said what your maximum sustained current will be... But your wiring/fuses/breakers should be 1.25x that desired max. sustained current (per NEC):
    • 30 amps * 1.25 NEC factor = 37.5 minimum design branch circuit wiring/breakers (round up to next standard size).

    Using the NEC for wire sizing (pretty conservative, and there are more deratings in the NEC book) gives you (basically) a minimum of 8 awg wire.

    Some DC rated breakers and fuses here.

    Blue Sea makes a really nice fuse holder (one or two fuses) that can bolt directly to the battery terminal:

    Attachment not found.Attachment not found.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    Your charger is the 30 Amp unit, which means you need wires capable of handling at least 30 Amps. 10 AWG would do that, but you probably want to go a bit higher to 8 AWG. If the terminals would take 6 AWG, use that; no one ever regretted using bigger wire (except when it won't fit or is too difficult to bend for installs of course). You could buy the wire locally, and crimp lugs on the end as needed. For a custom install like this buying pre-made could be a problem.

    If you can, get a Blue Sea battery terminal post fuse holder. They have a double version which would hold one for the charger input fuse and another for the load output fuse. You should be able to find these at a marine/RV dealer near you.
  • OldManOwen
    OldManOwen Solar Expert Posts: 25
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    I plan to go as big as I can on the wire size, I guess what I'm confused most about is selecting the correct pre-made wires with the correct "ends" to attach to the battery charger. What end does the cable need to fasten to the battery charger? Will it just be a post with a nut on it or does it require some special end crimped on it?

    -Nate
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    The Iota is designed to take bare wire ends, I believe. No lugs. It has screw-type terminal posts which use Robertson (Canadian!) #2 screw to tight onto the wire.
  • OldManOwen
    OldManOwen Solar Expert Posts: 25
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    OK I think I got it. #6 Positive and Negative to the Iota charger from the battery, bare ends at the charger. #6 Negative from the Battery to chassis ground of the truck. I'll get one of the Blue Sea Dual fuse setups for use with the Charger and future installation of the Inverter down the road. The MidNite monitor only calls for a 2AMP fuse so I believe I can use the 14 Gauge wire I have at the house to install that. Am I missing anything?

    -Nate
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    You have to purchase the fuses separately for use with the Blue Sea fuse holder.

    For the Midnite meter, you can use much smaller wire than 14 AWG if you wish (does not use much current).

    Note that "house wiring" is either solid or a few strands. These wires are nice and make very good electrical connections--But do not like flexing (copper work hardens very easily). So if using typical house wiring, make sure wires are well supported and do not flex when driving, moving things around (and do not flex at the connections/terminals).

    You might want to think about a DC master switch. It is nice to be able to turn off the batter power without having to unbolt. Plus, if the battery is not used for a while (vehicle "in storage"), disconnecting all of the loads will help ensure it is not "dead" the next time you use the battery (if you do not have some sort of maintenance charger or small solar panel plugged in).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • OldManOwen
    OldManOwen Solar Expert Posts: 25
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    Bill,
    Thank you for the reply! I have rolls of stranded copper wire in various colors that I purchased at the auto parts store and that's what I was planning on using for the Monitor. The DC switch sounds like a good idea, I had been planning on just "plugging" the truck in once a month to keep the battery topped off while it was in the driveway. Getting excited! My 7 year old son and I are leaving on the 3rd to see Wyoming, Montana and Idaho. It should be about a 30 day trip and 6-8k miles!

    -Nate
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho? I've been to all three. My advice: take your camera and make sure its batteries are full up! Beautiful scenery! :D
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Help me with choosing cables please.

    Remember the 3 big Wyoming lies:
    1. I'm a Cowboy!
    2. My Pickup truck is paid for.
    3. I was just trying to help that sheep through the fence!

    :D:D:D:D