Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

NorthGuy

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Good thinking and looks very nice.

niel

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

that's some nice looking lumber as there are so few knots. you might want to string a suspended side-rope up as a railing.

westbranch

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Dave, why would the AHJ want that TECK cable to be encased in concrete?

from Distributor Wire & Cable's site:

A big advantage of using an armored product such as Teck 90 is the fact you avoid the need for conduit or ducts. Since the Teck style item has armor in its construction, and can be direct buried, it eliminates the need for pipe

David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Re #33 - Agreed. It was almost a shame using it for a boardwalk, especially when we had to cut up longer boards. However, given that we got a good deal from the mill on unfinished/unevenly milled wood, it was a lot less expensive then using the lower-grade cedar one would typically use for decking.

With respect to a railing, given that the boardwalk isn't that far above the ground (around three feet at the highest point), and given that it isn't going to be open to the public, we think that we're good without one for the time being. However, we did leave it open to adding one at a later date if desired.

Re #34 - A good percentage of the run is over solid rock, and the AHJ requires the teck to be either encased in concrete (6 inches on each side) or under a protective wooden structure when not buried.

David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Today was the big day — First power!



Everything came up quite smoothly. We're very impressed with the SMA equipment so far.

The transfer box is also all wired up now. Here's a view inside:



The PSL pQube can be seen on the DIN rail at the bottom of the box.

Both Sunny Boys and the Solar Monitoring Panel are also operational.



It's so exciting to finally have everything running. All that remains is RS-485 and Ethernet cabling, and terminating the runs from the container to the buildings. And when the sun comes out tomorrow, we'll start charging those batteries!

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David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Time for a new signature!

westbranch

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

nice, neat wiring...

Rybren

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Very nice install.

lazza

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Looks like a fantastic installation you have there!

I dont know if you mind disclosing information on how much the whole system cost (excluding any construction etc), all the equipment and cabling eetc,,?? any ballpark figure would be fine

David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Re #38, 39 - Thank you! I also had very good help putting this system together — It's worth getting professionals involved.

Re #40 - I'll see what I can do to put together a summary of the major costs of the system. However, it's worth emphasizing that I can't easily provide a comprehensive analysis all the way down to cabling costs, etc, and there are a fair number of costs associated with the system that are there to enable future expansion, enhanced redundancy, provide shared communication services, etc.

David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

More progress today, though we ran into a slight problem with the Sunny Boys...

See if you can spot the mistake in the below manual page:



Yep, that's wright — The configuration settings for Island Mode - 60 Hz is incorrect. Serves us right for following the directions...

And as a result of this little misconfiguration, every time the Sunny Islands would try to throttle back solar production by increasing the frequency, the Sunny Boys would disconnect.

By the time we were able to figure out this was the problem (and after three hours on hold waiting for SMA tech support), we were worried that we had been locked out of the inverters (Sunny Boys have a "Grid Guard" "feature" that prevents you from changing your settings after "ten feed-in hours" (SMA tech support couldn't define what this exactly meant).

The first time we tried to change the settings, we got an error, but it seems to have taken the second time we restarted the Sunny Boys.

We've also been working on laying the cables from the cabin to the building:



Code requires the cables to be buried two feet down, with six inches of sand above and below. We were really worried about the sand, since it's hard to come by here, but we were fortunate in that we found a nearby bank that had more than enough for our needs.

Other notable progress includes completing much of the communication wiring and getting the WebBox communicating with the Sunny Islands via RS-485. The WebBox seems very sluggish, has broken images, and we're still having some trouble with the Sunny Boys not showing their parameters, so there is still more work to do here.

Another strange issue is that the Sunny Islands seem to want to throttle back charging, yet the SoC still reads 86%.

But, this is all to be expected; any complex system like this is going to have quite a few commissioning hiccups before everything is running perfectly.

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lazza

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Ok great, yes that's fine, just a ball park figure for the major system parts

stephendv

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

David & Laura wrote: »

Another strange issue is that the Sunny Islands seem to want to throttle back charging, yet the SoC still reads 86%.

The SI's will throttle based on the charging mode, not SoC. So if it's in float or absorb, it will start throttling.

David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Re #44 - It was throttling back while in charging mode "Full", which didn't make sense.

stephendv

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

David & Laura wrote: »

Re #44 - It was throttling back while in charging mode "Full", which didn't make sense.

"Full" also includes an absorb phase, so it is possible that it had already started absorb.

westbranch

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

I was going to ask a similar Q. What are the loads so far? If batts still 'near new' you will hit Abs very quickly. So low loads> quickly achieve Abs. > = v. short Bulk.
hth

David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Re #46, #47 - The batteries are brand new, so that could be what his happening... The Sunny Island only changes state when it reaches Float.

Here are the SI values from the WebBox:

No.	Name		Value	Unit
1	Adr		Master	
2	AptPhs		On	
3	AptTmRmg	23437	hhmmss
4	BatChrgOp	Full	
5	BatChrgVtg	57.897	V
6	BatSoc		86.2	%
7	BatSocErr	10.3	%
8	BatTmp		21.9	degC
9	BatVtg		57.9	V
10	CardStt		Operational	
11	ChpPwrAt	0	kW
12	ChpRmgTm	0	hhmmss
13	ChpStrRmgTm	0	hhmmss
14	ChpStt		Idle	
15	EgyCntIn	3.1	kWh
16	EgyCntOut	0.6	kWh
17	EgyCntTm	25	h
18	Error		-----	
19	E-Total		0.6	kWh
20	E-Total-In	3.1	kWh
21	ExtCur		0.2	A
22	ExtCurSlv1	0.3	A
23	ExtCurSlv2	0	A
24	ExtCurSlv3	0	A
25	ExtFrq		0	Hz
26	ExtPwrAt	0	kW
27	ExtPwrAtSlv1	0	kW
28	ExtPwrAtSlv2	0	kW
29	ExtPwrAtSlv3	0	kW
30	ExtPwrRt	0	kVAr
31	ExtPwrRtSlv1	0	kVAr
32	ExtPwrRtSlv2	0	kVAr
33	ExtPwrRtSlv3	0	kVAr
34	ExtVtg		2.8	V
35	ExtVtgSlv1	2.7	V
36	ExtVtgSlv2	0	V
37	ExtVtgSlv3	0	V
38	Fac		61.9	Hz
39	Firmware	6.002	
40	FwVer		6.002	
41	FwVer2		6	
42	GdCtcCnt	0	
43	GdEgyCntIn	0	kWh
44	GdEgyCntOut	0	kWh
45	GdEgyTmh	0	h
46	GdOpTmh		0	h
47	GdRmgTm		0	hhmmss
48	GnDmdSrc	Bat	
49	GnEgyCnt	0	kWh
50	GnEgyTm		0	h
51	GnOpTmh		0	h
52	GnRmgTm	0	hhmmss
53	GnRnStt		Off	
54	GnStrCnt	0	
55	GnStt		Off	
56	h-On		25	h
57	Iac		2	A
58	InvCur		2	A
59	InvCurSlv1	2	A
60	InvCurSlv2	0	A
61	InvCurSlv3	0	A
62	InvFrq		61.9	Hz
63	InvOpStt	Run	
64	InvOpSttSlv1	Run	
65	InvOpSttSlv2	---	
66	InvOpSttSlv3	---	
67	InvPwrAt	-0.1	kW
68	InvPwrAtSlv1	-0.1	kW
69	InvPwrAtSlv2	0	kW
70	InvPwrAtSlv3	0	kW
71	InvPwrRt	-0.1	kVAr
72	InvPwrRtSlv1	-0.1	kVAr
73	InvPwrRtSlv2	0	kVAr
74	InvPwrRtSlv3	0	kVAr
75	InvVtg		119.9	V
76	InvVtgSlv1	119.9	V
77	InvVtgSlv2	0	V
78	InvVtgSlv3	0	V
79	Mode		Operation	
80	Msg		0	
81	OnTmh		25	h
82	OpStt		Operating	
83	OpSttSlv1	Operating	
84	OpSttSlv2	---	
85	OpSttSlv3	---	
86	Pac		-0.3	kW
87	Prio		Ina	
88	Rly1Stt		Off	
89	Rly2Stt		On	
90	RmgTmEqu	178	d
91	RmgTmFul	12	d
92	Serial Number	nnn	
93	Sic1EgyCntIn	0	kWh
94	Sic1PvPwr	0	W
95	Sic1SWVers	0	
96	Sic1TdyEgyCntIn	0	kWh
97	Sic2EgyCntIn	0	kWh
98	Sic2PvPwr	0	W
99	Sic2SWVers	0	
100	Sic2TdyEgyCntIn	0	kWh
101	Sic3EgyCntIn	0	kWh
102	Sic3PvPwr	0	W
103	Sic3SWVers	0	
104	Sic3TdyEgyCntIn	0	kWh
105	Sic4EgyCntIn	0	kWh
106	Sic4PvPwr	0	W
107	Sic4SWVers	0	
108	Sic4TdyEgyCntIn	0	kWh
109	Soh		100	%
110	TotBatCur	-4.8	A
111	TotExtCur	0.6	A
112	TotExtPwrAt	0	kW
113	TotExtPwrRt	0	kVAr
114	TotInvCur	4	A
115	TotInvPwrAt	-0.3	kW
116	TotInvPwrRt	-0.3	kVAr
117	TotLodPwr	-0.3	kW
118	TotMccLodPwr	0	kW
119	TotSicBatCur	0	A
120	TotSicDyEgyCntI	0	kWh
121	TotSicEgyCntIn	0	kWh
122	TotSicPvPwr	0	W
123	TotTmh		0	h
124	Vac		119.9	V

In case anyone is interested in what it looks like when the Sunny Island slews the frequency to throttle back power production on the Sunny Boys, here's an event capture showing the frequency shift:



We also got the Power over Ethernet security camera for remote monitoring installed inside the container, and it is up and working:



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David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

I just got off the phone with SMA tech support — the throttling back is because the target voltage has been reached. According to the AptTmRmg value, in around two and a half hours, the system should switch over to "Float".

So, it looks like everything is working as expected.

David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

It was another productive week:



A long trench with 4/0 AL Teck cable to bring power down to the shop.



The solar array is all fenced in to keep animals from chewing on our solar cables (and to meet code).

We also wired up all the Sunny Sensor Boxes and are preparing the building service entrances. Everything is almost done!

We're very happy with the system so far. Everything is working very well, now we just need to see how it works in the middle of the winter, after several weeks of rain and cloud.

P.S. For those of us who don't follow all of the posts on the NAWS forums, we have a subsequent thread talking about surge protection for our system - http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?20959


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David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Our service entrance is now installed, complete with a Smart Meter.



We have power!

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niel

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

congrats!!!8):D

NorthGuy

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Congratulations!

Why do you need the meter?

zoneblue

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

So this is after all grid tied...? Or you just like the idea of smart meters so much you wanted your own?

niel

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

be nice guys and let him have a chance to answer.

westbranch

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

David & Laura wrote: »

The solar array is all fenced in to keep animals from chewing on our solar cables (and to meet code).

]

I hope that caging is a Gulf Islands Special requirement and not to become province wide...

David and Laura

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

Re #53 - Three reasons for the meter:

1. We wanted to have consumption metering for our guest house, so that we know how much power is being consumed when guests are visiting. It also provides an easy way to show/tell them how to know how much power they are using, if it ever becomes an issue.

2. We are planning to build a replacement and contingency fund for maintaining and repairing our power system over time by amortizing the total cost of the system over twenty-five years, and dividing it by the expected number of KWh produced, in order to obtain an estimated cost per KWh. We'll then bill ourselves for this power, and put the results into a savings account.

3. Since our small business office will also be located in the guest house, we wanted to have a revenue-grade meter to allow us to potentially write off our business-related power use against our taxes.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/slprtnr/rprtng/t2125/ln9220-eng.html

Re #54 - No grid anywhere near us... As for the smart meter, I've personally measured the RF off of them, and it's so low... Z-Wave, cell phones, cordless phones are all far higher emitters. It's a matter of principle, people should be way more concerned about the crap being put in their food then about smart meters. And certainly don't hold a cell phone directly against your head!

Plus, as a Ham operator, so I'm exposed to field strengths orders of magnitudes higher on a regular basis.

Re #56 - Full caging is not a code requirement. But protecting wires from animals and children is a code requirement.

It just was easier for us to just wrap a cage around the array instead of attaching it to the underside of the panels, and this way, it also prevents the sheep from using the array as a shelter.

NorthGuy

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

David & Laura wrote: »

2. We are planning to build a replacement and contingency fund for maintaining and repairing our power system over time by amortizing the total cost of the system over twenty-five years, and dividing it by the expected number of KWh produced, in order to obtain an estimated cost per KWh. We'll then bill ourselves for this power, and put the results into a savings account.

We do the same thing with our cars. We bill ourselves for every kilometer that we drive.

Since this is a smart meter, do you also have a unit that can read the numbers transmitted by the meter?

niel

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

northguy,
now that's a good question as many have these meters on their homes and if the utility can pick up the signal to read them then why can't we? question is what frequency(s), how do you discern your signal from others, and how is it they are getting the info from the transmitted material?

NorthGuy

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

niel wrote: »

northguy,
now that's a good question as many have these meters on their homes and if the utility can pick up the signal to read them then why can't we? question is what frequency(s), how do you discern your signal from others, and how is it they are getting the info from the transmitted material?

My guess is that all these numbers are encrypted. The electric company must also prevent spoofing from customers who might want to fake a reading to pay less. But I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers disn't think about security.

I don't know how they avoid clashing with each other. May be they don't transmit anything unless the reader requests an information. If that's the case, it may be hard to make the meter to transmit without a password.

This shouldn't be a problem for David, because there are no other meters around and he doesn't need to keep his electricity consumption a secret.

niel

Re: Gulf Island Off-Grid System - Part 4

picking it up will not allow one to modify the reading to the utility.

david&laura,
can you elaborate on getting the reading as to what's involved?