Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

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  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,444Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Apparently (based on published reports--which I trust about as much as I trust a politician) :roll:.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ThomThom Posts: 178Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    My windmill is over 90 ' . Instaled in 1982 a Bergey 1000 w . Not working for a few years now . Would never install wind with the price of panels so low. Conservation is the way th go. Panels easy wind pain in the butt!
    Good luck Thom
    Off grid since 1984. 430w of panel, 300w suresine , 4 gc batteries 12v system, Rogue mpt3024 charge controller , air breeze windmill, Mikita 2400w generator
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    That's really strange because any wind turbine big enough to power a house would have to be grid-tied. There's a practical limit to the size of battery charging wind turbines, and when you go to a size big enough to power an entire home on the average day, the amp output in high winds is simply more than any battery bank can take. That's why I use several smaller ones instead of one big one. You can shut down the system one at a time in high winds to prevent ridiculous amps when the wind blows.

    That whole story doesn't make sense.

    Thom - I agree. 10 years ago when I started putting up wind power to power our home, the first 1.2 kW of solar we ever bought cost us $5,200. These days, for the same $5,200 you can buy 4 kW of top-name, Made In USA capacity, including the rails and all the stainless steel hardware. So wind power should only be used anymore for off-grid, and only when it can reduce the generator run time enough to make it pay. And that typically only applies to the northern climates where 5 kW of installed solar capacity is lucky to make 3 kWh/day in the winter time.

    We believe in conservation, but after 11 years of living without utility power we also believe in living comfortably. So we burn thru 20-30 kWh/day, depending on the time of year. That sort of lifestyle is hard to support in the winter time (when our consumption is the highest) without wind power. So for us those turbines are worth their weight in gold. For others, you have to weigh whether or not wind power will even work on your site, and assuming it will installed properly, is it going to reduce your generator run time in the winter enough to make it worth messing with.

    Just one of my towers has $4,000 in concrete and $1,200 in rebar in the foundation. And that's just to anchor it to the earth. Plus I spent $2,000 with TEP (Tower Engineering Professionals) to get the required engineering stamps on the towers and foundations. And I'm a licensed mechanical engineer so I did most of the loading analysis on the structures myself and that $2,000 was just to file the necessary paperwork and have a civil engineer sign off on it. For the average joe it's going to cost $5 Grand just for the engineering analysis in a township where guyed structures are prohibited (being adopted by more and more townships every day).

    Wind power is anything but cheap anymore. And I have zero respect for anybody that puts a wind turbine on a 40 foot chunk of pipe held up by 1/4" cables. That's a disaster right out of the box and I wouldn't touch it with 40 foot telephone pole because it's dangerous in high winds. When the 1,000+ foot tower for WEAU-TV went down here locally due to ice load a couple years ago, the guy cables cut 36" diameter oak trees off slick as a shear when they started whipping around like snakes in the grass. And that's why ordinances are being passed outlawing guyed structures in many townships anymore. They're not safe because all it takes is one point of failure - a single guy wire letting go - and the whole thing comes down. Having a antenna array on it when it comes down is one thing - having a several hundred pound wind turbine on it with a spinning rotor makes it even more interesting.
    --
    Chris
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Chris I believe you shouldn't talk so negatively about smaller wind turbines. You're "big boy turbines" are in a different danger zone altogether. I'll buy and put up 30' in the air 10 smaller wind turbines for the same cost as your big one and MAKE MORE POWER.
    If i may speak frankly, your head has grown to the point where you've stopped learning. I understand that you are jaded by the "youtube idiocracy" but you must understand that there is more flexibility to smaller wind turbines.
    For example: If one of my 10 small machines fails, NO PROBLEM. I've still got 9 of them working while I can take my sweet time fixing the single failed unit. Should go without saying that if a turbine of your size decides to fail it's game over until the machine can be worked on provided good weather, and financial backing is available.
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Posts: 2,486Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    20yrDCman wrote: »
    Chris I believe you shouldn't talk so negatively about smaller wind turbines. You're "big boy turbines" are in a different danger zone altogether. I'll buy and put up 30' in the air 10 smaller wind turbines for the same cost as your big one and MAKE MORE POWER.
    If i may speak frankly, your head has grown to the point where you've stopped learning. I understand that you are jaded by the "youtube idiocracy" but you must understand that there is more flexibility to smaller wind turbines.
    For example: If one of my 10 small machines fails, NO PROBLEM. I've still got 9 of them working while I can take my sweet time fixing the single failed unit. Should go without saying that if a turbine of your size decides to fail it's game over until the machine can be worked on provided good weather, and financial backing is available.
    A post back when your actually doing it with all your costs, output and wind data would be helpful. Those are the kind of things that make people take notice.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    20yrDCman wrote: »
    Chris I believe you shouldn't talk so negatively about smaller wind turbines. You're "big boy turbines" are in a different danger zone altogether. I'll buy and put up 30' in the air 10 smaller wind turbines for the same cost as your big one and MAKE MORE POWER.

    No, you won't. Already BTDT years ago and those little turbines don't make enough power to justify messing with.

    There's nothing to do with "big head" here - more like BTDT and the last thing I want to see anybody do is waste their money on a worthless toy because they failed to do the research on how wind power works, and got suckered in by inflated claims from these manufacturers of little wind turbines.

    And no matter what size you put up, you cannot match solar with it in dollars spent per kWh of energy production on an annual basis. Period. Wind power will beat standby generators in cost/kWh. But it won't beat solar.
    --
    Chris
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Posts: 1,925Solar Expert
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Wind power will beat standby generators in cost/kWh.

    This certainly depends on available winds. In not-so-windy place, it is very unlikely.

    With good winds, if you count all the energy produced by wind, this is probably true. However, you cannot utilize all of the energy produced by wind turbine.

    You choose when you run your fossil fuel generator, so you won't run it when you cannot use its energy, and therefore nearly all the energy from the generator is used.

    The wind energy comes when it pleases, so you cannot use all of it. Only a fraction of wind production can be used. The rest goes to diversion loads. How big is the fraction depends on your overall system and other factors. If you have strong solar (as I do), and then install a wind turbine, only a small part of the energy produced by the turbine can be utilized. If you only count the wind energy that you utilize, fossil fuel generator will usually be more efficient in terms of cost/kWh. Of course, there could be situations where wind energy is cheaper (like yours perhaps), but I don't think it is common.
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    If chris has BTDT why did he not record and show it.
    He is a farmer by trade, not a windpower expert. This thread is about windmax and hy energy wind turbines. I have provided ample links and data on their problems. I am really not speaking to you with that post anyway, it was for chris.
    How about posting your thoughts on whether you agree or not.
    He did not reply to "if one of my ten fail, NO PROBLEM. I've got nine more still working"
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,444Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    20yrDCman,

    Can we learn a little more about your 10 turbine install? Or are you suggesting that would be what you are looking at installing at your place and you are looking for what brand/model(s) of turbines others would suggest?

    10x $2,600+ for a Windmax H20 turbine (only, not including towers, electronics, cabling, etc.) (or HY-2000 -- not sure of the details) is not exactly inexpensive either. And at near 300lbs for the turbine assembly, that is not small either.

    Bergey has some Excel spreadsheets for their (example) 1kW rated turbine charging a battery bank. You can enter in the specs for your installation and see what comes of it (tower height, altitude, wind at anemometer height, turbulence factors, etc.):

    http://bergey.com/technical

    But--I would guess you already have looked at Bergey's tech specs/library (for others who may be interested). For anyone that has been looking at/around wind for a while--There are not too many places to find this sort of information and most of us have already found/read what is available out there.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    You choose when you run your fossil fuel generator, so you won't run it when you cannot use its energy, and therefore nearly all the energy from the generator is used.

    NorthGuy - you are 100% right. And that's why qualified wind installations are few and far between. With wind power you either go big or go home to make it pay. But getting that message out there to the folks that insist on putting up these little wind turbines? It's almost impossible because the market is flooded with misinformation on them.

    DCman - Farmers have historically been one of the largest users of rural residential wind power. And farmers are typically the dealers for Jacobs systems over the years because they're the only people that got the equipment to handle them and the towers. Drive thru rural Wisconsin, Minnesota and the Dakotas and Jacobs systems dot the country side, and have for over 30 years. And these are not 5 foot machines on a 30 foot pipe. They're 23-31 foot machines on 90-160 foot Rohn SSV and old Jacobs angle iron towers - all put up by farmers.

    M.L Jacobs pretty much invented the rural wind power industry as we know it today:

    [video=youtube_share;-kc9RTky0wo]

    There were thousands of the old DC Jakes across the country back in the day -1.8's and Model 25's, and they're all big. And heavy, requiring cranes and heavy equipment to handle. How this business of wind power ever got to ignoring the lessons that Marcellus and Joe Jacobs learned and taught over the years is beyond my understanding.

    Sure - wind power with small turbines can be fun as a hobby. And it can be fun with big turbines too. A few years ago when we put up a 31-20 north of here we raised and lowered a 120' SSV with my Cat Challenger and a 40 foot gin. We got it down and put bearings in the gearbox and when we went to pull it up, it was a struggle. I calculated 30,000 lbs of dead pull on the gin cable to raise it. And as soon as the tower came off the stands the tracks started to spin on the Cat. It was touch and go for the first 50 feet, but she pulled it up. And that's one of the reasons I enjoy working with wind power systems - they're always a challenge.

    But the fact is that most people are concerned with economics of it. And that's where small systems simply don't pan out. And that message needs to be gotten out there for the folks that tend to expect more from it than what it can deliver for the cost - so they don't waste their money on it. A Jake 31-20 on a decent wind site will produce 25,000 kWh per year. And if it lasts 30 years with normal maintenance, it MIGHT reach break-even. Key word "MIGHT", generating $3,500 a year income for it's owner for the $80,000 in cost to put it up. But a small wind turbine that only generates 200 kWh/year (really optimistic for a small 5 foot turbine) only produces $30 worth of electricity per year. Do the math on it and you can't pay for the tower in 25 years.

    It's called "the economy of scale".
    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    BB. wrote: »
    10x $2,600+ for a Windmax H20 turbine (only, not including towers, electronics, cabling, etc.) (or HY-2000 -- not sure of the details) is not exactly inexpensive either. And at near 300lbs for the turbine assembly, that is not small either.

    Bill, any turbine that does not use a mechanical furling system or variable pitch rotor to protect itself in high winds is dangerous, and just an accident waiting to happen. That lesson was learned better than 80 years ago in the wind power business.

    WindMax does make a V-series turbine that has a furling system on it. But I am not familiar with them as I have never worked with one to tell you how well it works. Otherwise, every successful turbine that has gained a reputation of reasonable reliability, including even the Chinese built Bergey XL.1, uses a mechanical furling system and/or variable pitch rotor.

    Unfortunately, these machines with furling systems are also typically more expensive because they have more moving parts than a set-it-on-the-tower-straight-into-the-wind" machine that uses only stator braking to keep it under control. That is simply a bad design, and yet it is the one used by the vast majority of small wind turbine manufacturers because it's cheap and simple to build.

    Exmork, in the Chinese brands, has been fairly reliable on top of the tower, but still many problems with the electronics on the ground. The reliability of the Exmork turbines on the tower end is primarily due to the fact that they have a passive side-furling mechanism to prevent generator over-amps and/or rotor over-speed in the event electromechanical braking is lost.

    I have seen a lot of township ordinances for small wind energy systems now that require a turbine to have dual methods of rotor over-speed control. All it takes is one of these machines installed someplace in a populated area to have a failure and toss a blade and cause damage to neighbor's property and wind turbines will be banned at the next township board meeting. So IMHO, this is something that people should be looking at when considering purchasing one.
    --
    Chris
  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,024Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Hi Chris, there is one more factor that we all seem to skip over when talking RE and it really applies to any of the 3 types we cover, hydro the least, and that is the value lost (or to the user) when we DON'T have that power. Lack of power can make things very uncomfortable. As you have well documented, your system covers off those 'blanks' in power availability.

    I wish there was someway to quantify this 'loss' as it would make the argument (discussion) simpler to rationalize, ie if you have grid available, no problem but if there is no grid the expense has to be valued from a different POV...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
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  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,444Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I agree Chris,

    Every "reliable" and "safety conscious" wind turbine needs at least two methods to automatically & remotely shut down--and at least one of those methods should be mechanical (brake, furling, feathering, etc.).

    The electrical method of shorting/shunting the turbine output and cause the blades to stall requires too many electronic/electrical items to work perfectly, and that the stator does not overheat. Given enough wind and things that go wrong--It is does not result in a safe/reliable design.

    On occasion, I have posted a few youtube links to commercial sized turbines that have failed and could not be shut down (one was even a turbine being installed and the crew removed the blade/gear box mechanical lock before the balance of the install was completed--There was nothing they could to until either the wind stopped, or the thing collapsed--Guess which happened first :p). Nobody can climb a tower to "rope in" a set of spinning blades as a windstorm builds.

    Wind is a dangerous force. Putting a small wind turbine on a roof--probably too small to cause much damage if/when it fails--and too small/poor wind setting to generate much useful power.

    There are just too many instances of larger turbines shedding ice/blades/pods/towers to make it worth the risk to install near inhabited areas (homes, work, parks, play grounds, etc.).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    westbranch wrote: »
    Hi Chris, there is one more factor that we all seem to skip over when talking RE and it really applies to any of the 3 types we cover, hydro the least, and that is the value lost (or to the user) when we DON'T have that power. Lack of power can make things very uncomfortable. As you have well documented, your system covers off those 'blanks' in power availability.

    That's all true. But as NorthGuy pointed out for him, even living in the frozen north where solar doesn't work in the winter, he feels the generator time is more economical than wind. I have a little more experience with it and I tend to disagree with that based on the fact that I got a Dead and Worn Out Generator Collection over the years. There came a point where I decided there has to be a better way, even though that way is pretty expensive up front.

    For people with grid power? Solar is almost on parity with grid power now as far as cost. In some areas where they charge peak time rates, solar is cheaper than grid power. Wind, no matter what you do, is going to cost approximately 3X what solar costs per kWh at today's prices. So to my way of thinking the only reasoning for putting up a wind turbine for somebody on the grid is "because I want one".
    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    BB. wrote: »
    Wind is a dangerous force. Putting a small wind turbine on a roof

    Wind turbine on a roof? Don't even get me going on that one because I'll get really riled up and use words like "idiot".
    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,444Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    westbranch wrote: »
    Hi Chris, there is one more factor that we all seem to skip over when talking RE and it really applies to any of the 3 types we cover, hydro the least, and that is the value lost (or to the user) when we DON'T have that power. Lack of power can make things very uncomfortable. As you have well documented, your system covers off those 'blanks' in power availability.

    I wish there was someway to quantify this 'loss' as it would make the argument (discussion) simpler to rationalize, ie if you have grid available, no problem but if there is no grid the expense has to be valued from a different POV...

    And that is why I like to throw the $1-$2 per kWH out there for folks to ponder. Yes, a few people can hit under $1 per kWH for off grid / Renewable Energy power, but not many (other that Grid Tied solar). (and, I suggest everyone work out their own $/kWH power costs so they can make informed decisions).

    That 1,000 kWH per month at a ~$100 per month energy bill does not sound too bad (average power usage for a North American Home)--And, if you are not there, turn everything off and it gets down to ~$10 per month.

    For off grid power, that 1,000 kWH per month looks more like a ~$1,000 to $2,000 electric bill payable up front for the next 10-20+ years. And, if you are not there, the "cost" of power does not really go down that much (except in winter when generator fuel is not needed).

    All of a sudden conservation starts to look very interesting and as a cost effective means to control energy costs.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Posts: 1,925Solar Expert
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    :D
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    I have a little more experience with it and I tend to disagree with that based on the fact that I got a Dead and Worn Out Generator Collection over the years. There came a point where I decided there has to be a better way, even though that way is pretty expensive up front.

    Chris, have you started to build your collection of Dead and Worn Wind Turbines? :D
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Posts: 1,925Solar Expert
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    BB. wrote: »
    And that is why I like to throw the $1-$2 per kWH out there for folks to ponder.

    Apparently, if your RE does not produce enough energy, your only way is a generator. So, this should be the cost of running generator. For me, it's $0.50/kWh if taken direct, or $0.95/kWh if generated and put through batteries. Apparently, it's below $1-$2 range, even with my inefficent generator.
    BB. wrote: »
    All of a sudden conservation starts to look very interesting and as a cost effective means to control energy costs.

    Since most of the costs are upfront and don't depend on usage, conserving after you built your system doesn't reduce your cost.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    BB. wrote: »
    On occasion, I have posted a few youtube links to commercial sized turbines that have failed and could not be shut down

    Runaway turbines are really fun. About three years ago I assembled a 4 meter machine in the shop and put it on the forks on a stand that I made for my forklift. It was 20 below outside and I wanted to test run it to check the dynamic rotor balance. So opened the overhead door and drove the forklift outside and turned it into the wind. I had neglected to hook up the generator on it because I figured it would be a short test.

    There's all kinds of things that can happen when you do something stupid like that. One is that the wind picks right up as soon as you get it outside, the turbine swings into the wind and lights right up to 400 rpm almost instantly. And then the forklift, designed for concrete floor only, gets stuck in the ice and snow and can't move it. The next 1/2 hour spent trying to get even close enough to that wind turbine to stop it was one of the most interesting (and dangerous) things I ever done. I even climbed up on the roll cage on the forklift and tried to manually turn it out of the wind. The forces on the rotor made that impossible. At one point I grabbed the output shaft on the gearbox with one hand with leather glove on and tried to brake it - that glove went to like 200 degrees almost instantly and I threw that smoking glove into the snow. Throwing a rope at it is not even an option because if it violent stops it would more than likely tip the forklift over.

    I finally stopped it with a set of jumper cables hooked to the forklift frame, but trying to hook jumper cables up to stator power studs that are putting out over 200 volts, and can deliver 400 amps inrush is sort of a risky thing too.

    That's all the BTDT part when it comes to wind power.
    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    Chris, have you started to build your collection of Dead and Worn Wind Turbines? :D

    That's actually bigger than my Dead and Worn Out Generator Collection. But it was a lot more fun :D

    I always joke that China don't have the only Rare Earth Deposits in the world. I got Rare Earth Deposits in the field in back of the house from a turbine that tossed the mags off the gen rotors once. And then the blades hit the tower and I never did find some of the pieces of those.

    And then I had a 4.0 meter two-blade experimental turbine once on the 90 foot tower. That turbine was running in 40 mph sustained wind and it over-amped the clipper on the Classic controller and burnt that up. Then it went over-voltage and the Classic unloaded it and went into HyperVOC. The shutdown switch was at the tower base and watching that turbine scream at 600+ rpm I decided I'd better shut it down before it tosses a blade. When I threw the Big Red Handle on the SquareD three pole safety switch the overturning moment from the rotor, combined with the severe vibration inherent in a two blade rotor when it yaws, bent the tower mast and broke two welds on the struts and it just about came off the tower stub when the blades hit the tower. I was already running and never got hit by the flying pieces.

    I gave up on two-blade wind turbines.

    Oh yeah - I forgot about the 3.0 meter one that I was test running on a 6" diameter pipe bolted to a hay wagon. Tipped the hay wagon over with that one. Gosh - that almost 10 years ago already :D
    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    BB. wrote: »
    And that is why I like to throw the $1-$2 per kWH out there for folks to ponder. Yes, a few people can hit under $1 per kWH for off grid / Renewable Energy power

    Bill, do you think off-grid power costs that much? I think we're somewhere around 40-50 cents, the way I got it figured. At our present consumption in the last two years (which has gone up a LOT compared to what we had before that) I figure we use about 7,000 - 7,500 kWh/year off-grid. And about 1/3 of that comes from the generator over a year's time.

    Our consumption is going to go up this year because we're putting in a new Central A/C unit for the house. But we're putting in additional solar capacity to run it so the generator doesn't have to get involved with that.

    Anyway, at 7,500 kWh/year, and if I use 50 cents/kWh, that's about $3,700/year to cover equipment and batteries, maintenance on equipment and fuel in the generator. And I think that's pretty close over the long run. There's one of the fellows here (Photwit maybe?) that I think says he's got it below 30 cents/kWh and I could see that with a well thought out and designed off-grid system. Ours has actually been hacked together over time with not a lot of thinking or design in the initial stages of when we started doing it, so it's not as cost efficient as it could be.

    But even so, when it comes to some equipment like inverters we've been able to basically recover our costs on those when we upgraded to newer/bigger/better/faster because there's people that will pay premium price for used equipment, as equipment costs seem to keep going up with time. So even though our system isn't what I'd consider efficiently done or thought out, I think it's still pretty economical from an off-grid standpoint. To be over one buck/kWh I would think would take a really badly designed system?
    --
    Chris
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    No, you won't. Already BTDT years ago and those little turbines don't make enough power to justify messing with.

    There's nothing to do with "big head" here - more like BTDT and the last thing I want to see anybody do is waste their money on a worthless toy because they failed to do the research on how wind power works, and got suckered in by inflated claims from these manufacturers of little wind turbines.

    And no matter what size you put up, you cannot match solar with it in dollars spent per kWh of energy production on an annual basis. Period. Wind power will beat standby generators in cost/kWh. But it won't beat solar.
    --
    Chris

    So your turbine, tower, engineering stamps cost over $12,000.00.
    Windmax Hy400 wind turbine $699 each, tower $100, cable $100
    So ten of those units would be about $900.00 each x 10 units = $9,000.00. That's $3,000.00 less than your system and like I said if one or two fails I have a bunch still working (provided windmax hy400 wind turbines do work at all).
    Chris I would be generating over 1,000 watts at 10 mph wind. I agree solar is cheaper these days but like Ravenskeep said "they don't work at night". we ALL need wind if we have batteries or if we want any kind of backup power. I think your turbine is phenominally built but isn't china the way to go these days??
  • inetdoginetdog Posts: 3,121Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Oh yeah - I forgot about the 3.0 meter one that I was test running on a 6" diameter pipe bolted to a hay wagon. Tipped the hay wagon over with that one. Gosh - that almost 10 years ago already :D
    I guess that is one way to do protective furling. :-)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    20yrDCman wrote: »
    Chris I would be generating over 1,000 watts at 10 mph wind.

    Ummm......

    This is where people fail to do their research and get suckered in to this crap. FYI, at 10 mph wind speed there is only .081 kW of kinetic energy flowing thru the swept area of a 1.4 meter rotor at sea level. De-rate by 3% for every 1,000 feet in elevation. A turbine rotor running at Cp .49 (really exceptional and I doubt the HY400's rotor is much above .42) there is only 40 watts available at the shaft. Generator losses will be very load at low outputs, but the rectifier has a 1.4V forward drop. So by the time you get your 40 watts at the shaft down the tower, take a 10% hit in the generator windings (resistance), thru the rectifier and wiring, and to the batteries, you are around 22 watts.

    Unless you've found a way to break the laws of physics and electrical engineering, this is fact.

    So no - your 10 little pinwheels do not match even one of my machines at 10 mph wind speed.
    --
    Chris
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I happened across this about the windmax hy650 wind turbine. The slip rings burned up and they said it has no warranty and no warranty outside the USA.
    http://www.windynation.com/community/threads/windmax-hy-650-wind-turbine.457/
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Collector rings and brushes on the yaw assy of any turbine are generally bad news and they are high maintenance items. Simply using a Type SEOW drop cable thru the yaw assy has proven to be trouble free over the years. As long as the tower is perfectly vertical so the turbine yaws randomly with changing wind directions I have never had problems with the drop cable twisting. Where a tower tends to lean one way a slight amount, this will cause the turbine to tend to want to yaw one direction every time the wind changes directions and put some twists in the cable with time. With 80-90 foot towers it's not a real problem because it can go for a year and only get 4 twists in the cable usually. When the tower is lowered for its annual maintenance, simply disconnect the cable and untwist as part of the maintenance regime.

    With short towers it can be a problem, but it's easily solved by installing a heavy duty twist lock plug at the bottom the tower so the cable can be unplugged from time to time and let it untwist. I've gone to installing a twist lock plug on all of them in recent years, regardless, simply because I've burnt the contacts out of heavy duty 200 amp three pole safety switches used to shut the turbine down in high winds. Having the twist lock plug allows you to unplug it and plug in a male twist lock "dummy plug" that's wired to be shorted to stop the turbine in the event of a failure of a contact set in the safety switch.
    --
    Chris
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Like I said previously I wouldn't go with chinese anyway because windmax hy wind turbines have no warranty basically and no replacement parts.
    There are better built american made micro, small, large wind turbine machines. And you can get parts for them.
    Chris there are just a lot of people who want to make power at night and during storms and a few kwh when the wind is blowing at all.
    Have you seen windenergy7? There whole company is thriving off rooftop windmax windturbines (relabeled as windenergy7).
    I too agree to not do rooftop wind, instead put the turbine away from house a little and get it at least 20' above your roof. And you can get several of them for your purpose.
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Yes I agree with you on the drop cord and no slip rings. Slip rings are just NOT NEEDED and if you buy one with them you are paying extra for something that is not needed.
    Get a cable with rubber flexible jacket like sjoo. Basically built like welding cable and meant for abuse even though not much is encountered inside a tower pole. I have actually helped put together a windmax slip ring and the head of the screw f'in stripped out. Must been made of lead
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    20yrDCman wrote: »
    Chris there are just a lot of people who want to make power at night and during storms and a few kwh when the wind is blowing at all.

    That's all fine and good. But there are too many people on a budget that have been burned by these wind turbines. Knowing what I know about wind power, in all good faith I find it impossible to recommend them to anybody when I know that their money spent on solar is a much better investment. And that's the problem with them.

    You have to have a legitimate reason for putting in a wind turbine. And the only legitimate reason I've found over the years is if (emphasis on "if") it will save you some money by reducing your generator run time for your off-grid installation. Otherwise wind power is a complete waste of time and money, except for the hobbiest that "just wants one".

    I designed my turbines and put the information out there, completely free, for the DIY off-grid person who wants to build a wind system that puts out big power and uses top-of-the-line electronics that won't go up in smoke at the first sign of a cold front blowing thru. My turbines were designed out of necessity, years of experience as to what it takes to build one that stands up in our northern winters, and the fact that most of what you can buy from the commercial manufacturers is junk out of the box. They're not designed to compete with the Chinese or car alternator turbines. They're designed for people that want something that works, but they're not going to throw it up on a 40 foot piece of pipe or mount on the roof because it'll tear the roof right off your house. When it comes to wind power I'm from the Go Big or Go Home camp.
    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,444Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    A few kWH from a storm blowing through is a gallon of gasoline in a Honda eu2000i genset (400 watts * 9 hours * 1/1.1 gallon tank = 3,273 Watt*Hours). Add ~$1,000 for genset and an oil change every 25 hours or so--And the genset should last 2,000 to 6,000 hours of use.

    If you have larger power needs/need autostart/reliable/capable, the generator that Chris is using (Honda EM4000SX) seems to be difficult to beat (it is very difficult to find reliable smaller AC Gensets with autostart capabilities).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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