Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

ravenskeepravenskeep Posts: 6Registered Users
I have been researching wind generators and came across the Wind Max HY Energy wind turbines from applied magnets out of Texas. I have seen some reviews on you tube with people raving about their great performance and have also heard that they are trash and the controllers are a safety hazard. I notice Arizona wind and sun does not sell the wind max and if the wind max is better than the SouthWest or Primus you sell... opinions? Only have the money to do this once.
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Comments

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Welcome to the forum.

    I think first you might want to look at this thread that explains some of the confusion:
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?18302-Windmax-vs-HY-Energy-%28Guangzhou-HY-Energy-Limited%29-Confusion

    Then there are several other threads about Windmax and HY turbines:

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?18054-HY-3000W-With-SMA-Windy-Boy

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?15681-Windmax-H8-Troubles

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?9466-Windmax-HY-2000-2kW-Wind-Turbine

    As you can see, there's no shortage of discussion.

    I think what you need to look into primarily is whether or not your site is actually any good for wind to begin with. You'd be amazed at the number of turbines put up that don't produce anything because there really is not enough wind to move them.

    By the way, the forum operates at "arms length" from our host NAWS. None of the moderators have anything to do with them, and they don't monitor the site for business questions. They do welcome direct inquiries however. :D
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Windmax HY energy and most chinese wind turbines do NOT have replacement parts available. Not even blades of all things. There is NO warranty if you install it yourself. Even if you have warranty you have to send the WHOLE unit back to china for repair and you pay the shipping expenses. The charge controllers commonly fail in the first big wind or if you forget to connect to battery first. There is a reason why windmax sells coleman charge controllers. You pay full price for a replacement American Made charge controller even if burning the original wasn't your fault.
    My advice is to buy American made from places like Hurricane Windpower, Missouri Wind and Solar (mwands), or Windblue or Windy Nation. Every part of their turbine can be replaced and parts are readily available. The windy nation turbine motor cannot be parted out, you have to buy a whole new motor but they do sell replacement blades and such.
    Here is a video I have found among others:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbghmNj_St4
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I've found an awesome windmax video. Appears someone has replaced the blades with missouri raptor blades and their 600 watt wind max is producing over 1000 watts.
    heres the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncMvuVJr8cc
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Wow I just found this video review of windmax wind turbine blades exploding. Too bad he can't get replacement blades.
    here is the video of the windmax blades breaking off and sinking into the ground:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA_fwfvSSjQ
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Here are some reviews I found about the windmax wind turbine on Amazon revenskeep:
    http://www.amazon.com/Windmax-HY1000-5-24-Volt-Residential-Generator/product-reviews/B001JBFJZK/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
  • inetdoginetdog Posts: 3,112Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    20yrDCman wrote: »
    To summarize for those who do not want to take the time to read:
    7 reviews:
    2 five star
    1 three star
    4 one star

    A common gripe was the warranty which was so restrictive as to make it useless. If the limitation is driven by a sincere belief that any small wind needs a knowledgable person involved at purchase and install, I can see it. But the limitation is not revealed in their sales pitch.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • PolaracoPolaraco Posts: 102Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ravenskeep wrote: »
    I have been researching wind generators and came across the Wind Max HY Energy wind turbines from applied magnets out of Texas. I have seen some reviews on you tube with people raving about their great performance and have also heard that they are trash and the controllers are a safety hazard. I notice Arizona wind and sun does not sell the wind max and if the wind max is better than the SouthWest or Primus you sell... opinions? Only have the money to do this once.

    Pay no attention to those two. Wind Max works fine and is an honest company

    I'm not at liberty to say any more about the two commenters.
  • PolaracoPolaraco Posts: 102Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    Welcome to the forum.

    I think first you might want to look at this thread that explains some of the confusion:
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?18302-Windmax-vs-HY-Energy-%28Guangzhou-HY-Energy-Limited%29-Confusion

    Then there are several other threads about Windmax and HY turbines:

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?18054-HY-3000W-With-SMA-Windy-Boy

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?15681-Windmax-H8-Troubles

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?9466-Windmax-HY-2000-2kW-Wind-Turbine

    As you can see, there's no shortage of discussion.

    I think what you need to look into primarily is whether or not your site is actually any good for wind to begin with. You'd be amazed at the number of turbines put up that don't produce anything because there really is not enough wind to move them.

    By the way, the forum operates at "arms length" from our host NAWS. None of the moderators have anything to do with them, and they don't monitor the site for business questions. They do welcome direct inquiries however. :D

    Boss
    Contact BB about this thread. I sent him some insight
  • windwatts1windwatts1 Posts: 6Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I agree. I have a 1kw wind max with no problems. I also own a few of those delco style PMA's. In comparison the wind max was a great buy regading power and construction. Even if they came with a warranty mine would have never needed that warranty as i have had mine for over 4 years with no problems. As far as the post on the Wind Max blades exploding i have conatcted the person who has the posted video on this page. He has told me his dump load controller was not strong enough to hold the turbine down in the 65 MPH winds he was receiving. That wind max was a new 1kw HY with a new blade style and was not tested on the inverter that was used. I think a little more facts should be posted before posting a video with only a negative point of view. So far these postings look to me like a bashing campain instead of an information highway to better ideas on improvemnts. To further the improvment part the owner of HY has been sent the correct dump load coils and has also been very nice to talk with in sharing information. Wind max wind turbines for me is a grand slam and i plan on buying a few more. I highly recommend them.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 24,575Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I am very happy to hear that you are satisfied with your Windmax turbine.

    Please note--For some reason there is starting to be a lot of personal flak starting about the turbine and reviews.

    None of us here have any information on people who post here or who they may or may not work for. All opinions are personal in the end. And when available, we certainly allow those to be posted too.

    We have had a mix of posts (positive and negative) about Windmax turbines from people that like them or not--And some issues over the years about trying to get spare parts. And even some possible confusion about the same brand name being used by different vendors.

    Please take a breath and stand back. If somebody has experience (good or bad) about hardware--please feel free to post.

    Vendor issues become a bigger issue for us Moderators. Pretty much a given that none of us have ever work with/or had business dealings for any of the parties involved. Please just stick with "just the facts" about the hardware and please do not attempt to draw the forum into personal/legal issues.

    There is nothing we can do about it. And all it will do is lock threads (or worse).

    Sincerely,
    -Bill B. Moderator
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ravenskeepravenskeep Posts: 6Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Which brings me to the point of why I asked the question in the forum here to begin with. You tube is full of people posting out of greed and personal interest in my opinion. Such is the case with the commenter Polarico whom fielded my comment advising me to pay no attention to those two. I recognize the name as a frequent youtube commenter that is affiliated with a group that supports wind max. The thing is one group says Wind Max are great the other says they stink. At this point it is reasonable to conclude you cannot get spare parts as many have noted. This is a relatively new company?? Five years or so? They are designed for how many years? What is breaking that spare parts are needed?

    What I do not understand as a buyer that has me completely confused is you have a group of people indicating that these turbines are great and outperform everything else. Many of the same people and I do not exaggerate here have riveted street signs to the tail and the first thing they do is show the blades that the originals out of the box were replaced with. Are the blades bad? If I buy a turbine that is world class is it reasonable to expect I should have to weld a street sign to it and put on another set of blades?

    1 why are people welding tails to these when it comes with a tail....
    2 why do people immediately replace the blades
    3 what parts fail that you cannot get???

    I am not being huffy or in the least or mean any of these questions derogatory way , however something is either world class or it is not....based on the 3 observations above does anyone have any feedback.....please leave the opinion out I need real answers not guys in their yard acting like children on youtube.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 24,575Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Here is an older thread (from late 2010) that talks about Windmax a bit:

    Windmax HY-2000 2kW Wind Turbine

    I, personally, am not a fan of small wind. The smaller turbines (in general) either do not perform well in moderate winds, or self destruct/shut down in high winds (usually lacking brakes, furling, and/or feathering to shut down safely in high winds). And while wind turbines themselves are not that expensive, to put one on a 60-90+ foot tower in a windy region is expensive--When all is said and done (tower, foundation, controllers, labor, etc.), the wind turbine is just a faction of the total price.

    We have some links to pro and con sites for wind that are an interesting read:

    Wind Power Links
    www.otherpower.com (good forum for DIY Wind Power)
    Hugh Piggott - Scoraig Wind Electric site for tons of info (from mike90045)
    www.greenpowertalk.org (added from "russ"--Like here but more wind/less solar)
    Small windpower a scam ? Survey says SO
    Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Much of the problem is there are aerodynamic principles that govern how much an ideal wind turbine can generate... And many of the charts/tables for these smaller wind turbines exceed even the theoretical maximums. And in practice, even if you have a very good small turbine, many times the sites themselves are not very conducive to generating power (low average wind speed, very high peak wind speeds, turbulent winds, mounting on homes/businesses near roof lines, etc.). Let alone the issues with lightning strikes.

    From what I have seen so far, many of the successful turbines have been built by the owners, either based on old (1930's designs) or on their own designs.

    We have one poster here "Chris Olson" who designs and builds his own turbines. These things weigh 300 lbs and are placed on 90' towers running Midnite Clipper MPPT controllers.

    http://dairylandwindpower.us/
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Many of my builds are on some other forums for homebuilders. I build those turbines for off-grid folks, and I've got several of them in Canada. We have three wind turbines for our home. They're on 80 and 90 foot self-supporting towers - this is the latest one I put up in July on one of my own 80 foot towers:

    Attachment not found.

    Attachment not found.

    They are 3.5 meter (11.5 foot diameter) high voltage machines (cut in at 50 volts, rated power at 142 volts), have a geared axial generator, and use the Classic 150 controller. They produce 460 watts @ 15 mph, 1 kW @ 20 mph and 1.6 kW @ 25 mph. Depending on how you set the voltage clipper they are capable of well over the Classic's maximum output rating on 12 and 24 volt systems in 30+ mph wind. They are not power limited by the furling tail - that doesn't do anything until the wind is blowing about 35-40 mph. Their power is limited by the voltage clipper.

    Yes, of course, I do all the maintenance. They only require annual service which consists of inspecting the blades and touching up any worn paint and cleaning leading edges, inspecting the drop cable for wear (they do not use slip rings), changing oil in the gearbox, and greasing the yaw/thrust and tail bearings.

    I only build them for qualified off-grid installations, and only for installation on a proper tower. I will not build one for somebody who wants to use it for grid-tie, or put it on a guyed pipe tower because pipe towers move too much and won't hold one in high winds. The machine weighs in excess of 300 lbs and develops close to 1,000 lbs of side thrust on the tower mast in 90 mph wind (90 mph survival required by the new tower standard). The towers for them are either built here (my own design), or I use Rohn SSV towers, depending on the zoning requirements and what engineering stamp is required on it.

    My turbines are well outside the budget range of all but the most serious off-grid installations. But they are also not a toy like a Bergey XL.1 Noisemaker.
    --
    Chris

    There is no way that I could use a wind turbine where I live (metropolitan area with smaller lots and low wind speeds)--So, I don't even bother looking around.

    In the end, I have seen very little in the way of documentation of any "small" (home/small business) wind turbines that have operated over a 1 year period with monthly kWH listing (Chris being one of the few that seems to log his power generation). All turbines need mainteneance and repair over time--They are installed in very sever conditions (up on a tower in four season weather, rain/ice/wind/sun, possible lightning, thermal cycling, vibration, etc.). The "sucessful" folks, seem to be those that perform much of the work themselves. Renting cranes and lift trucks, donkeys, to access the turbines gets expensive very quickly.

    I am not sure what else to add--We (as a forum) try to avoid getting personal. Everything is a choice in life. And we have all made mistakes along the way. Our intent here is to have first person experience backed with data/links (when available) to move the discussions forward.

    Life is too short to get wrapped around the axle with joining "camps" and getting personal.

    Sincerely,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ravenskeepravenskeep Posts: 6Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I knew sooner or later if the Olsen guy kept on posting on forums he would convince someone he knew what he was talking about. I have read his ramblings on otherpower and sorry was not impressed just my opinion. I notice by the hyperlink to his site this is just a marketing tool for him as well? I guess I am just baffled that the opinions are so varied. Pertaining to Olsen well I will leave that alone but the issue remains you have polar opposing opinions on windmax. It is either good or it needs new blades and big enough tail and slip rings that will not burn up....I don't think there can be two ways about it.
  • vtmapsvtmaps Posts: 3,433Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ravenskeep wrote: »
    I knew sooner or later if the Olsen guy kept on posting on forums he would convince someone he knew what he was talking about.

    I am quite impressed by his postings and I think he is a most valued member of these forums. However... a lot of the advice he gives is not good advice for the rest of us. Example: he feels that many parallel strings of batteries is perfectly OK. It's OK for him because he goes to extreme measures to periodically load test and rearrange them as needed. For the rest of us who don't take such extreme measures its a bad idea.

    He has done some very impressive things with his system and I am grateful to learn so much from him, even though I have no desire (or ability) to maintain a system like his.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • BB.BB. Posts: 24,575Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    And I have no association with Chris -- Or even NAWS -- Other than what you see here.

    I posted a link to his site--Chris has been very diligent to not advertise his turbines and has offered to help people with the designs if they wanted a DYI project.

    Chris appears to be very proud of what he has accomplished--And I would be too if had done those things too.

    But as vtMaps says, Chris' solutions are not for every one. And Windmax may not be for everyone either.

    From my limited experience with wind (none--but from an engineering view), the wind turbines are relatively cheap, and the supporting towers, electrical, labor, etc. is expensive.

    If you are looking for a product to try, and have already committed to a generic tower/electrical system to support a Windmax (or any other brand/DYI project)--I guess it is a personal choice as to try Windmax or not.

    I see Wind as a backup/fill in tool for areas with periods of poor sun and "high winds". Solar is much more predictable, and fuel driven generators are something you can "turn on" when power is needed. Wind is power seems to be much more elusive (between weather, terrain, and reliability). The amount of power you can capture for wind goes with the square of the swept area and the cube of the wind speed. And smaller wind turbines mounted on "short" towers already have several strikes against them. Very few manufacturers can afford to build an "expensive" small turbine as customers have difficulty justifying the small amount of power captured over time.

    There is an element of risk in any off grid/solar power project. I am on my second array and a replacement GT inverter in less than 10 years. I thought the product were reasonable and still had failures (I purchased/installed my system about the same time I first became a member here--So I really did not get much from the forum at that time). But both companies did stand by their warranties (one was even out of warranty)...

    In the end, I do not agree with everything typed here--But I do know that we have a very good set of members here that truly want to be helpful and share information. No hidden agendas, no sniping because somebody made a different decision than I (or another poster) would have made. No green agendas. Just a practical look at the needs and tools out there. A little conservation/understanding of loads to help reduce power usage, and save money on the power installation.

    And we are all human--Sometimes we slip and get a bit ticked off and it shows in our postings--But that is because we care and really try our best to be helpful and informative.

    Warmest Regards,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ravenskeep wrote: »
    I knew sooner or later if the Olsen guy kept on posting on forums he would convince someone he knew what he was talking about.

    Oh really? Well, I will tell you that about 90% of residential wind power installations are a complete waste of time and money. And that, regardless of whether or not you think I know what I'm talking about, is fact.

    This whole thread smells of the "hit squads" that run around on YouTube and forums promoting their favorite toy wind turbine. So before continuing the rant on the WindMax H20 I suggest you provide some useful information as to your site's suitability for wind power, and whether it is off-grid or if you just want an expensive and useless toy.
    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Posts: 24,575Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    And people posting their personal experiences is what I would like to see, and have asked for many times. Simple things like how tall of tower, estimated site wind speeds, and how many kWH per month (by month) have been harvested... A link to the product is fine. But be prepared for folks looking at those links and making comments/observations. This is the Internet.

    Yes, we have had a few people coming by to praise or slag on Windmax (specifically) in this thread. For the most part, the moderators will remove posts that don't really have questions or answers to questions. Links, experience, etc. to their hardware (or a friends) is fine.

    I do have problems with Youtube data--Those seem to, many times, be a vehicle to gather hits (and votes) from forums like ours (and others). Not really interested in participating in those things.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ravenskeepravenskeep Posts: 6Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Oh really? Well, I will tell you that about 90% of residential wind power installations are a complete waste of time and money. And that, regardless of whether or not you think I know what I'm talking about, is fact.

    This whole thread smells of the "hit squads" that run around on YouTube and forums promoting their favorite toy wind turbine. So before continuing the rant on the WindMax H20 I suggest you provide some useful information as to your site's suitability for wind power, and whether it is off-grid or if you just want an expensive and useless toy.
    --
    Chris
    This is why I am not impressed..:p..the fellow thinks quite highly of himself. No one had ranted about windmax it was a serious question and just because I am not carving blades and hanging them from a 90 foot contraption it does not mean were are wanting to "install a toy" I came over here specifically to avoid you tube hit squads however it appears the same people have saturated the entire wind and solar community. For the sake of the question lets assume it is 30 feet over the nearest obstruction wind zone 3-4

    The question has little to do with the install. It is simply a matter of does the product hold up and produce? Windy nation has a thread speaking of the slip rings burning up
    http://www.windynation.com/community/threads/windmax-hy-650-wind-turbine.457/

    Countless others say that the thing is great but in video have replaced blades and tail sections while exclaiming to "stay away from the car alternator". So assuming we stay away from that type of PMA and we cannot build a 90 foot tower at our place who makes a good wind turbine and why. The HY or wind max was simply asked about because it was a turbine I am considering.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ravenskeep wrote: »
    This is why I am not impressed..:p..the fellow thinks quite highly of himself.

    That's called experience.
    and we cannot build a 90 foot tower at our place

    This is your first clue that you should not even be messing with wind power. 30 feet clearance over obstructions means nothing. At 50 feet you are still in the ground induced roll zone that causes turbulence thru a turbine rotor. At 60 feet in perfectly flat terrain you are just at the edge of it. 80 feet is minimum to get any real production from a wind turbine. 90 feet is ideal minimum to get out of your investment in it what you should get. Anything over 90 feet is better.

    Wind power costs 3x what it costs for the equivalent kWh production with solar. You have to have a reason for putting it up - like poor solar conditions in the winter for an off-grid home, and wind power costing roughly 1/3 of what it costs to operate a standby generator. Otherwise residential wind power is simply not practical.

    When it comes to the H20, installed on a 40 piece of pipe with guy wires strung all over tarnation, it will last reasonably well. Put it on a 90 foot tower in a good wind zone and it won't last three months. I got two of 'em laying in my shop in the junk pile burnt to a crisp. The electronics on them are a fire hazard. When they burn the stator they free-spin and toss blades.

    Over 90 years in the history of wind power the only turbines that withstood the test of time are machines that use either mechanical furling or variable pitch rotors to protect themselves in high winds.

    Bottom line - avoid the H20 like the plague if you have a good wind site and a real tower. If you're putting up an expensive toy on a 40 foot piece of pipe it might work but don't expect much energy production from it compared to what you can get from solar.

    Edit:
    Another thing to consider with wind power is that the wind zones are established at 50 meter (164 feet) height. The average wind speed on a 90 foot tower will be about 85% of what is established for the wind zone at 164 feet. On a 50 foot tower the average watts/square meter thru the rotor will be only 25-35% of the wind zone rating. And this is the primary reason that 90% of residential wind power installations are failures - failure to spend the money on a decent tower. The tower is the most expensive part of a wind power installation.

    There are also "micro climates" in any wind zone so the suitability of a site for wind power has to evaluated on a one-on-one basis with actual data at the proposed tower height. For instance, we live in a zone 4, but due to terrain, features like Lake Superior and prevailing winds, we get close to 20 mph averages in the winter time with many days of sustained 30-35 mph. I've flown data logging anemometers for years here and at 50 feet height the wind speed is only 14-15. At 80 feet it increases to 18-20. For a wind turbine that's a difference of sustained 300 watts output vs sustained 1 kW - JUST by increasing the height of the tower by 30 feet.
    --
    Chris
  • stephendvstephendv Posts: 1,571Solar Expert
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Ravenskeep, I was considering a chinese turbine to complement the solar a while back and posted a question to the fieldlines forum: http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,147521.0.html the one I was considering was an "exmork". There are a few positive posts on different forums about that machine, and also some negative, but the negative tended to be about burnt out controllers and I was never going to use a chinese controller anyway.

    In the end, after factoring in shipping, import duties, tower, controller and diversion loads, I decided that it was too costly compared to just installing more solar. But if you're in a good wind zone and a poor solar insolation zone then it could be another brand to consider.
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Posts: 1,925Solar Expert
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    stephendv wrote: »
    In the end, after factoring in shipping, import duties, tower, controller and diversion loads, I decided that it was too costly compared to just installing more solar.

    I figured the same thing. In my calculation, the cost of installing 3kW turbine on 120ft tower was the same as 10kW solar array. Most of the cost is tower and tower footing. The cost of the turbine is just a fraction of the total cost.
  • ravenskeepravenskeep Posts: 6Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    That's called experience.



    This is your first clue that you should not even be messing with wind power. 30 feet clearance over obstructions means nothing. At 50 feet you are still in the ground induced roll zone that causes turbulence thru a turbine rotor. At 60 feet in perfectly flat terrain you are just at the edge of it. 80 feet is minimum to get any real production from a wind turbine. 90 feet is ideal minimum to get out of your investment in it what you should get. Anything over 90 feet is better.

    Wind power costs 3x what it costs for the equivalent kWh production with solar. You have to have a reason for putting it up - like poor solar conditions in the winter for an off-grid home, and wind power costing roughly 1/3 of what it costs to operate a standby generator. Otherwise residential wind power is simply not practical.

    When it comes to the H20, installed on a 40 piece of pipe with guy wires strung all over tarnation, it will last reasonably well. Put it on a 90 foot tower in a good wind zone and it won't last three months. I got two of 'em laying in my shop in the junk pile burnt to a crisp. The electronics on them are a fire hazard. When they burn the stator they free-spin and toss blades.

    Over 90 years in the history of wind power the only turbines that withstood the test of time are machines that use either mechanical furling or variable pitch rotors to protect themselves in high winds.

    Bottom line - avoid the H20 like the plague if you have a good wind site and a real tower. If you're putting up an expensive toy on a 40 foot piece of pipe it might work but don't expect much energy production from it compared to what you can get from solar.

    Edit:
    Another thing to consider with wind power is that the wind zones are established at 50 meter (164 feet) height. The average wind speed on a 90 foot tower will be about 85% of what is established for the wind zone at 164 feet. On a 50 foot tower the average watts/square meter thru the rotor will be only 25-35% of the wind zone rating. And this is the primary reason that 90% of residential wind power installations are failures - failure to spend the money on a decent tower. The tower is the most expensive part of a wind power installation.

    There are also "micro climates" in any wind zone so the suitability of a site for wind power has to evaluated on a one-on-one basis with actual data at the proposed tower height. For instance, we live in a zone 4, but due to terrain, features like Lake Superior and prevailing winds, we get close to 20 mph averages in the winter time with many days of sustained 30-35 mph. I've flown data logging anemometers for years here and at 50 feet height the wind speed is only 14-15. At 80 feet it increases to 18-20. For a wind turbine that's a difference of sustained 300 watts output vs sustained 1 kW - JUST by increasing the height of the tower by 30 feet.
    --
    Chris

    Chris can you share your experience with residential wind power? Are you saying residential wind power only works for 10 percent of people and unless they do it your way they are wrong? These wind max Turbine are selling a lot and are all over the place. Your saying that 90 percent of them fail and the DIY wind turbine community should just stop what we are doing and listen to you? I hae literally never seen a residential install with a 90 foot plus tower. I do not disagree that higher is better. Hell I would like to build one so high the cell phone company would lease space on the tower. This is however not practical for home homeowners. Based on your comments can I assume it is your point of view that wind power is only for "experienced" elitists such as yourself? I would also point out that there are lot of articles that do say 30 feet over the nearest obstacle is the minimum desirable tower height. We do not want to run a Dairy Farm.....we want backup power for the house. The question was is the windmax a good turbine and I see that the consensus is no based on lack of parts and failures? No politics here just debate and I do respect the viewpoint of others. I would like to find a forum which did the same without the I am god attitude. "This is your first clue that you should not even be messing with wind power." Really" This forum values this type of attitude from its "solid members"
  • BB.BB. Posts: 24,575Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Can we stop the innuendos now?

    If Chris has a couple of failures in his back 40--He obviously cannot test them any further. Perhaps you will find more "useful" information from others.

    The information about wind from surface to the standard wind charts that are based on the hub hight of full sized utility scale turbines is pretty well known. And we have had many folks here (including installers) that recommended a minimum of 60 foot tower to their customers too--Add 30' above near by obstructions (i.e., two story home), and you are at a 90' tower.

    There have been turbines installed in cities on ~60 foot towers--but I have never seen any monthly kWH reports from them... And usually, the installation (and frequently the companies that installed them) eventually drop off the radar.
    BB. wrote: »
    In general--Wind turbine blades and structures can fail. And having a large enough lot such that the tower only falls on the owner's property (and/or shedding blades which can travel pretty far) would limit liability problems.

    The other issue is noise... That seems to be a wild card for at one manufacturer. Some turbines/installations seem to be pretty quite... Others keep the neighbors awake.

    Of course, where the turbine is installed (city, country), expectations, and NIMBYism (Not in My Back Yard).

    And there is the practical side of wind--the turbine should be at least 30' taller than any structure within 500' (zoning issues--30'+ higher--add blade radius to that--than any other nearby structure)... And to really have any chance at generating significant power; 60-120 foot towers are much more desirable.

    In the end--typical horizontal axis wind turbines of any size tend not to be very neighborhood friendly. And Vertical Axis Wind Turbines tend not to generate much power (but the smaller "Urban HAWT" don't generate much power either).

    Lastly, for example a Skystream 3.7 meter diameter turbine on a 30-60 foot tower, in a windy location, generates ~$20-$60 worth of electricity per month. And in an urban setting maybe a fraction that.

    Who would risk $10,000+, or fight city hall, risk angry neighbors, etc. for a hand full of dollars worth of power per month.

    Here is one Skystream buried among apartments on a 45' tower among three story blocks in the San Francisco Mission District. Which is interesting, in San Francisoo the oldest districts had the best weather (good sun, less wind)--that is why they were settled first. According to wind 30 meter maps (like this one), The entire city is less than 10.1 MPH. Video of it running here.

    I can't find it right now, but years later the above building was found to have its power hacked into a building next door. And there is nothing on the wind companies involved that I could find lately.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ggunnggunn Posts: 1,972Solar Expert
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ravenskeep wrote: »
    ...Based on your comments can I assume it is your point of view that wind power is only for "experienced" elitists such as yourself?
    Take his advice or not; it's your choice. Feel free to spend the money and see for yourself. Tell us how it works out for you.
  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    this is a warning as any name calling or digs will not be tolerated. once more shall draw a penalty. stay with the subject matter and back up any claims so that this can be done civilly.
  • ravenskeepravenskeep Posts: 6Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Have I offended the forum? I am not familiar with Chris ans simply asked for his credentials. His posts suggest that all small wind turbine idea should be scrapped or at minimum we should look at a DIY turbine from what I have gathered. Once more it comes across as rude when some says" that is your fist clue you shouldn't be messing with wind power". I am simply looking at the HY 5 blade 1 kw unit and saw mixed reviews. Now it has been suggested I need to apply for a wind turbine license:confused: I have literally dug on no body. Solar does not work at night and I would simply like something to assist the batteries at night so they are not depleted.
  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ravenskeep wrote: »
    Have I offended the forum? I am not familiar with Chris ans simply asked for his credentials. His posts suggest that all small wind turbine idea should be scrapped or at minimum we should look at a DIY turbine from what I have gathered. Once more it comes across as rude when some says" that is your fist clue you shouldn't be messing with wind power". I am simply looking at the HY 5 blade 1 kw unit and saw mixed reviews. Now it has been suggested I need to apply for a wind turbine license:confused: I have literally dug on no body. Solar does not work at night and I would simply like something to assist the batteries at night so they are not depleted.

    well i did not specify anybody in particular that this was for as it applies to everybody, but now that you are in denial of this and i quote, ""experienced" elitists such as yourself" you have earned a 3 day time out to reflect.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ravenskeep wrote: »
    Now it has been suggested I need to apply for a wind turbine license:confused:

    While you are reflecting I would like to point out for other folks considering wind power that in most townships in the US you DO need a permit to install a wind turbine. The small wind ordinances vary from place to place, but typically the tower and foundation will require an engineering stamp by a licensed PE. And in some townships they even require UL certification on an off-grid turbine that will have power from it coming into a residence.

    The first thing anybody considering wind power needs to do is check your township's or county's small wind ordinance to find out what is required to put one up.

    Unlike solar, wind turbines are dangerous machines if something goes wrong. And that's why townships have ordinances that regulate property line setbacks, setbacks from buildings, etc. for wind power systems. There was a fellow in Winona, MN not too long ago that put up a Bergey Excel on a 120 foot Rohn SSV, then was forced to take it down because he didn't obtain the proper permits for it. After seven months of government red tape he obtained the conditional use permits to put it back up:
    http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/local/article_e08abf36-0805-11e0-85d0-001cc4c002e0.html

    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Posts: 24,575Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Here is the information on the green home + wind turbine plus a little "help" from the neighbor.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    So, basically, this woman put up a wind turbine to power this house? And when it didn't work she tapped in to the neighbor's electric box?

    LOL!
    --
    Chris
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