Hello...and Help!

Hi, I just joined this forum and I already love it! I participate in various business/entrepreneur forums, asking questions about pursuing solar career, but never get any good information in return. I've even tried writing solar energy companies asking for help, and don't get a response. Who would have thought this site actually exist. I can't believe it. I'm hoping to find someone here that could help jump-start my possible future.

This is my situation. I am currently an undergrad student that will receive a B.S. in Financial Services in May 2009. For about 3 months I have been researching info. on residential PV systems (cost, efficiency, popularity, advances in tech, gov't tax credits/subsidies, etc.). The wealth of Info. avalible on this subject makes me want to drop out of school and focus all of my studying photovoltaics. I believe a large portion of world will become dependant on solar energy sometime in my future. I want to become a big part of this inevitable trend.

As of now, it seems residential PV systems are marketed very little. With the all the benefits (financial/environmental), I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to successfully sell PV systems door-to-door; not literally, but in a sense. I've actually thought of a marketing technique I'd use that I think would be tremendously successful. I believe I could sell any product I believe in, and this is a product I TRULY believe in. When I look at career opportunities offered by solar energy companies in my area, I see nothing even close to resembling what I want to do for the company.

I was hoping somebody could please guide my studies, and/or make some suggestions as to the type of career path I should follow. It would also help if anybody knew any other networking outlets for a venture of this type. Or I'd like to hear any comments on my way of thinking, are there any flaws I should know about. -If nothing, thanks for at least reading this long winded post. :D

Comments

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    my advice is stay in school and finish what you're doing there. get a job in that field you schooled for, but don't let this go as some make it into this field which is a tough area to make it in. a side business in this field may or may not work out for you, but i wouldn't count on it. it is not as lucrative or as open of a field as many would think and if you aren't tops in some aspect of the field odds are it will fail. there are many people even here on this forum that would with knowledge of the subject have a great deal of difficulty in starting a business in solar. it does happen though so just don't forget it if you really are interested.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    I am not sure there is a good answer for you... From my ever so humble point of view--solar PV is sort of like home remodeling contractors...

    Since every home and installation is different, each needs to be evaluated, quoted, and eventually built like a one-off system. So costs are high and any economies of scale are pretty low for retrofits to existing home/businesses and structures. And each city has its own business and permitting requirements. And, of course, every utility has its own requirements too (meshed with local and state requirements too).

    You probably know way more about the tax, rebate, and laws regarding the whole solar PV market... Basically, the tax and rebates are funded by over taxing existing rate payers. Eventually, something is going to give... Either they run out of taxable dollars (if everyone had grid tie solar and a $6 per month bill, who is going to pay for the infrastructure and fuel costs for the 18 hours per day the sun does not shine).

    And once solar takes off in any one particular area--Such as an article I saw posted here a few weeks ago... A track of new homes was all going to have appropriately sized solar panels on all of the homes. Normally, there is something like a 0.5-1% limit on the amount of solar generation that can be connected to the grid. Works OK if this is in spots all over the state of California--but if done in a large subdivision, the money and engineering math don't work out--and the utility either wanted to stop the installations or charge a huge amount of money to pay for infrastructure... For example, roughly 1/2 the power bill is for paying to install, upgrade, and maintain infrastructure. If I sell my power to the utility at retail during 6 hours of the day, and buy exactly the same amount of power back at retail for the remaining 18 hours of the day without sun... My bill may be close to Zero Dollars--but there was a whole lot of electricity flowing in and out of my home/subdivision that needed copper, cables, and generators 18 hours of the day to supply my home at night--plus distribute the power I generate during the day.

    Now I pay $6 per month, before I paid about $60 per month--with 1/2 that amount going to maintain the poles, lines, and transmission equipment--so the utility still has to run the same size (capacity) wires to my home for $6 of income whereas before, they got about $30 of income per month.

    If the rebates and tax breaks go away, and they start charging property taxes on my solar equipment, start buying power from me at wholesale (and charge me to carry my power) and sell to me at retail---it would probably end up cheaper for me to turn off my 3kW grid tie system and toss it in the garbage...

    I guess what I am trying to say is that Solar PV is pretty much a creation of current government policies... And as such, there can be money made while the policies are favorable, and when those policies change--possible collapse of the entire sector.

    This almost happened a year and a half ago in California--The state government changed the details of the implementation laws for Solar PV rebates and interconnection to the utility grid. Probably was a good idea to ensure that the rebate money was properly spent and that the systems built stayed operational for years into the future.

    Instead, the "minor" changes virtually stopped all small solar installations in the state of California. And one fallout was that for people adding a small solar array to get their feet wet would to make their utility power bills go up because of the requirement to use Time Of Use metering.

    It took about six months for the lawmakers to fix the plan for now--and they will go back and see what they want to change next time.

    Its great you want to get involved with an industry that grabs your heart--But use your business sense to make sure whatever you choose makes sense for you.

    I certainly don't have all of the answers--how do you see the whole Solar PV business shaking out over the next few decades?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    The way I see it, is that for the vast majority of "consumers" of solar products, it's not nearly so much about making or saving money, as it is about convictions, or a way of life, an alternate lifestyle, totally unlike the mainstream, and something the mainstream has no interest in once they realize the cost and grasp the the fact it puts an end to their two hour hot showers etc.
    The two groups tend to live in different worlds.
    Wayne
  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    Just reading the 3 excellent replies to your original enthusiastic post, I suspect you will have already applied the brakes a little. Renewable energy at door to door level as already explained is more complex than one initially thinks. But there are wonderful opportunities out there but not with a copoprate all for one, one for all Musketeer package.

    PV solar is usually the last avenue in the renewable energy tatics for the would be door to door customer. After boring stuff like power usage reduction, insulation, draft proofing, solar hot water heating, all these and many more will pay the customer better dividends that PV will ever do.

    Each area is different and needs different approaches, Im just starting a small family renewable energy business after 3 years on learning and hands on practical expierence and the field that Ive choosen is narrow and specific to my location and potential customers

    Ive spent a lot of time and effort in building an off grid solar powered home in the countryside of North Eastern Spain. Ive sucessfully created a Solar Cheese wedge Solar Shed which houses my batteries and inverter charger system using minimal length wiring runs . Ive paid attention to detail in wiring up the sysem with all the correct DC Disconnects enclosures and System Monitoring Ive only ran my generator 9 hours since Christmas. Learning great amounts from this forum in particular and I may add still learning.My target customers are similar to me in that they live off grid, have plently of sun and cant believe how quick fuel costs are rising.

    By word of mouth only people and asking to visit me and check out my solar cheese wedge shed its not rocket science just practicle and simple (which still isnt completely finished) the construction idea and installation of the equipment speak for themselves. In the last 4 weeks Ive taken on 4 installs two of which are copying the Cheese Wedge design directly, two are mounting there PVs on existing buildings all are having equipment recommended and supplied by me and installed by me. So I have what appears to be the start of a sucessfull new venture in a very small niche of PV renewable energy with a specific customer base. In my favor are the sunny location the current fashion of people returing to the good life of countryside living off grid, and the complete lack of credible competion . I wont be the next Bill Gates (Im meant to be retired) but doing something that your genuinely interested in cant be classed as work, can it ?

    I wish you well take Neils advice and finish your course and remember what is often quoted on this forum by many members please avoid the

    READY FIRE AIM senario;)
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    nigtomdaw - - That was one awesome post!!
    True life in the solar world.
    Thanks for taking the time.
    Wayne
  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    Thanks Wayne....opps forgot to add one thing about living in the beautiful country side surrounded by orange groves, that is my neighbour delivering 32 tonnes of chicken s??t every other day this week and then spreading said stuff all over to make sure he gets another fine crop of oranges in January next year.

    Sorry we are defo off topic now !:blush: I still like and eat his 0ranges :p
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Hello...and Help!
    niel wrote: »
    my advice is stay in school and finish what you're doing there. get a job in that field you schooled for, but don't let this go as some make it into this field which is a tough area to make it in. a side business in this field may or may not work out for you, but i wouldn't count on it. it is not as lucrative or as open of a field as many would think and if you aren't tops in some aspect of the field odds are it will fail. there are many people even here on this forum that would with knowledge of the subject have a great deal of difficulty in starting a business in solar. it does happen though so just don't forget it if you really are interested.

    I do plan on finishing school. But unlike many students, I'm doing it purely for the little applicable knowledge I'll gain. Now days, the piece of paper you receive at graduation is just about worthless in this competitive world. This is why I changed my major to finance. I'm learning the basics of the creation and flow of money, and how to nuture my financial assets. The research I'm doing on doing these topics outside of school are both interesting and helpful. I'm sorry to get off topic, this is just another field that facinates me.
    -But I do have a point. I really don't care about getting a lucrative position in a company - for now I'd just like to get involved in the field, it will only be an added benefit to wealth I create through my investments - which could be in solar, or any other alternative energy source. I believe I'll see the world dependacy on the finite source of oil flip to something else during my lifetime, I'm only 23. Whatever it is, we'll see a giant shift of power (= money) from the OPEC nations to the countries that are on the forefront of the new energy tech. wave.
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!
    ....we'll see a giant shift of power (= money) from the OPEC nations to the countries that are on the forefront of the new energy tech. wave.

    It appears that the next huge shift will be in food production, in fact some are suggesting that to counter OPEC that the major food producing nations - such as the US - form a similar cartel and jack their prices up for OPEC.

    So become a farmer :roll:
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    windsun,
    interesting answer, but i suspect it would spiral upwards with one trying to overprice and get over on the other. food still may be a possibility due to ethanol production as that seems to be the behind the scenes excuse my grocery has upped his prices just prior to the new excuse of rising gasoline prices.
    squandered halfpints,
    along continueing that train of thought from my responce to windsun is for you to become a grocer. you don't have to invest as much and all increases are passed to the consumer along with an extra amounts for profit increases. opec will ride out their wave and then fall flat on their faces, but i hope our country prepares enough to not fall down on their faces with them. you are young and ambitious. good qualities, but get a solid footing in life with your schooling and its related employment and go from there. i wish i had that solid footing to start with. who knows, you may be the real green grocer by having a solar powered grocery store. that's alot of solar juice.:cool:
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Hello...and Help!
    BB. wrote: »
    I am not sure there is a good answer for you... From my ever so humble point of view--solar PV is sort of like home remodeling contractors...

    Since every home and installation is different, each needs to be evaluated, quoted, and eventually built like a one-off system. So costs are high and any economies of scale are pretty low for retrofits to existing home/businesses and structures. And each city has its own business and permitting requirements. And, of course, every utility has its own requirements too (meshed with local and state requirements too).

    You know way more about the tax, rebate, and laws regarding the whole solar PV market... Basically, the tax and rebates are funded by over taxing existing rate payers. Eventually, something is going to give... Either they run out of taxable dollars (if everyone had grid tie solar and a $6 per month bill, who is going to pay for the infrastructure and fuel costs for the 18 hours per day the sun does not shine).

    And once solar takes off in any one particular area--Such as an article I saw posted here a few weeks ago... A track of new homes was all going to have appropriately sized solar panels on all of the homes. Normally, there is something like a 0.5-1% limit on the amount of solar generation that can be connected to the grid. Works OK if this is in spots all over the state of California--but if done in a large subdivision, the money and engineering math don't work out--and the utility either wanted to stop the installations or charge a huge amount of money to pay for infrastructure... For example, roughly 1/2 the power bill is for paying to install, upgrade, and maintain infrastructure. If I sell my power to the utility at retail during 6 hours of the day, and buy exactly the same amount of power back at retail for the remaining 18 hours of the day without sun... My bill may be close to Zero Dollars--but there was a whole lot of electricity flowing in and out of my home/subdivision that needed copper, cables, and generators 18 hours of the day to supply my home at night--plus distribute the power I generate during the day.

    Now I pay $6 per month, before I paid about $60 per month--with 1/2 that amount going to maintain the poles, lines, and transmission equipment--so the utility still has to run the same size (capacity) wires to my home for $6 of income whereas before, they got about $30 of income per month.

    If the rebates and tax breaks go away, and they start charging property taxes on my solar equipment, start buying power from me at wholesale (and charge me to carry my power) and sell to me at retail---it would probably end up cheaper for me to turn off my 3kW grid tie system and toss it in the garbage...

    I guess what I am trying to say is that Solar PV is pretty much a creation of current government policies... And as such, there can be money made while the policies are favorable, and when those policies change--possible collapse of the entire sector.

    This almost happened a year and a half ago in California--The state government changed the details of the implementation laws for Solar PV rebates and interconnection to the utility grid. Probably was a good idea to ensure that the rebate money was properly spent and that the systems built stayed operational for years into the future.

    Instead, the "minor" changes virtually stopped all small solar installations in the state of California. And one fallout was that for people adding a small solar array to get their feet wet would to make their utility power bills go up because of the requirement to use Time Of Use metering.

    It took about six months for the lawmakers to fix the plan for now--and they will go back and see what they want to change next time.

    Its great you want to get involved with an industry that grabs your heart--But use your business sense to make sure whatever you choose makes sense for you.

    I certainly don't have all of the answers--how do you see the whole Solar PV business shaking out over the next few decades?

    -Bill

    I really appreciate the time you put into your post bill. I'm gonna try and respond as concise as possible.

    I know every home installation is different, and I think this a reason why we see residential PV systems marketed very little. If somebody really wants their home to be solar, they would have to spend some time doing some research on top of their busy schedule. This is exactly what I'd want to do for a company that sells PV systems. I would research every possible aspect of installing a PV system including financing, style/design, various benefits, etc. - which will be tailored to a specific home. This would give me a guess what you would call a specific home template that could be molded to conform with a new home that I wish to sell to. -if that makes any sense.

    It sounds like your pretty happy with your own personal PV system, though you sound pessimistic about the future benefits, and you think there is even potential of a loss in your PV investment. What I don't understand is peoples thoughts of negative gov't intrusion into this field. I think mass construction of PV panals in this country will bring in a huge amount of revenue for the gov't. Homeowners on the grid will become the new suppliers of energy. The rising price of oil is effecting everybody, including the power companies. Our economy is suffering, and this is contributing to it. I guess I don't understand how this method of eliminating our reliance on foriegn oil is benefit - to us individual consumers, to utility companies, to the the local, state, and Fed governments.

    I guess my optimism is clouding any realism to my vision. I guess I don't get it. Yes, it will be a HUGE change that isn't going to occur overnight, but something has to happen. What other choice is there? What better option is avaiable. And solar tech. isn't at a stand still. Its getting much much better. The bigger this market gets, the more innovations we'll see. Its happening pretty slowly right now, because thats how capitalism works. Does anybody believe solar energy efficiency is at its best? I personally don't, but then again, I don't know much at all on the tech. side.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Hello...and Help!
    I know every home installation is different, and I think this a reason why we see residential PV systems marketed very little. If somebody really wants their home to be solar, they would have to spend some time doing some research on top of their busy schedule. This is exactly what I'd want to do for a company that sells PV systems. I would research every possible aspect of installing a PV system including financing, style/design, various benefits, etc. - which will be tailored to a specific home. This would give me a guess what you would call a specific home template that could be molded to conform with a new home that I wish to sell to. -if that makes any sense.
    Basically, anyone that is using AutoCad--or equivalent--(mechanical drafting package) and a computer planning, management, and accounting system run their business is doing this anyway.

    My personal history is as a design engineer for computers (mechanical and electrical systems design)... And we are lazy people. We would do a lot of hard work to get the pieces documented, designed, and into our materials systems--the first completely new design is a lot of work (basically 50% of the design work is really paper work and communications with others)... Once that has been done once, I could crank out variants with 1/2 the labor, virtually 100% accuracy, and 1/2 the time from start of project until parts/systems were produced.

    Once you have knocked out that 50% overhead of "reinventing the wheel"--there is much less room for improvements... Sure, you can knock a 5% off here or there with employee time management and better communications between vendors, employees, and customers--but these are, at best, fractional improvements--not something that will shift a paradigm--like what happens when you address the "low hanging" fruit (like computerizing for the first time, or integration of manual process flows with computers)...

    Certainly, there are unaddressed markets that may be exploited by a smart guy that sees and opportunity (like Nigtomdaw who retired from Britain to rural Spain--not speaking the language well--setting up his own "solar power station" and based on word of mouth and local interest is now kicking off his own small local solar business because there is nobody else there with the experience combined with ability--Nigtomdaw--correct me if I got anything wrong here).

    But, in the end, I still think Solar PV retrofits is still a version of the home remodeling market... Where 5% less on price is not going to matter near as much as being sure the product is reliable and the vendor will be there to back it up (which is why I was able to convince my wife to go solar through our local Home Depot--$30,000 is a lot to risk without much starting knowledge of the parts involved)...

    I was not "here" on Wind-Sun at the time--so all I was aware of were the issues with Trace Corporation (and their changing/sell out??? to Xantrex), and BP Solar's panels--knowing that solar panel companies have come and gone (including oil company purchases to look "green"), let alone that it was all being spec'ed and installed by a local family owned electrical contractor... And being able to go to my local Home Depot to shake a tree if anything went wrong (and it probably cost me 10% for the "peace of mind").
    It sounds like your pretty happy with your own personal PV system, though you sound pessimistic about the future benefits, and you think there is even potential of a loss in your PV investment. What I don't understand is peoples thoughts of negative gov't intrusion into this field. I think mass construction of PV panals in this country will bring in a huge amount of revenue for the gov't. Homeowners on the grid will become the new suppliers of energy. The rising price of oil is effecting everybody, including the power companies. Our economy is suffering, and this is contributing to it. I guess I don't understand how this method of eliminating our reliance on foriegn oil is benefit - to us individual consumers, to utility companies, to the the local, state, and Fed governments.
    My system is working fine--and I could not expect anymore from it than it how it is performing today...

    Everything is trade-offs. Had to install on a 2nd story roof--so I can't really clean it more than once or twice a year. Does not face true south, and I don't have any where on my lot where I could get any better sun. Will eventually get some additional shading from a neighbor's Redwood tree... All the usual stuff.

    And, I do suspect that the value of my system will fall in value--first because of age. And inverter will last 10 years or so, panels will last 25 years or so (maybe longer--don't know)... So from that point of view--it has too.

    It also may fall in value (to me) because of the artificial increase in value because of government laws and regulations (I get to sell power to my utility at retail cost). I can't plant some carrots and take them down to my local super market and hand them $5 "worth" of carrots and carry out $5 worth of soda--but yet, that is what I am doing with my power company.

    The state of California has "grandfathered" my system and rate plan in for now. And new people do not have access to the plan I am using now--so their ability to get an enhanced rate of return for their systems is already reduced. And, buried into my rate plan is this notice:

    Customers qualifying for this exemption shall be subject to the following requirements. Customers qualifying for an exemption from standby charges under Public Utilities (PU) Code Sections 353.1 and 353.3, as described above, must take service on a time-of-use (TOU) schedule in order to receive this exemption until a real-time pricing program, as described in PU Code 353.3, is made available. Once available, customers qualifying for the standby charge exemption must participate in the real-time program referred to above.

    Right now, none of this is even defined--so who knows when or how this will come about and how it will affect me... I already know that I am getting a free ride of about $25 per month from the utility. And I expect this to change eventually. It does not make long term business sense.

    Right now, the largest cost of installing solar is probably labor (and that includes the labor of building the panels). Either automation or off-shoring assembly to China will reduce panel costs some (but now we are trading "oil dependence" for "labor dependence"...

    And then you are left with the materials... Copper is expensive. Aluminum and Silicon is very energy intensive. And China has been actively expanding their energy and materials sources by playing with some very bad characters... It lowers the costs of goods from China--but does not help change around our balance of payments--just shifts it to another country.

    Right now, the US is the third largest producer of oil (after Saudi Arabia and Russia--IIRC). And we have locked out huge tracks of oil and coal deposits through government regulations.

    After the oil shocks of the 1970's the price of crude oil crashed--will it happen again--not sure as China and India are now increasing their energy consumption too...
    I guess my optimism is clouding any realism to my vision. I guess I don't get it. Yes, it will be a HUGE change that isn't going to occur overnight, but something has to happen. What other choice is there? What better option is avaiable. And solar tech. isn't at a stand still. Its getting much much better. The bigger this market gets, the more innovations we'll see. Its happening pretty slowly right now, because thats how capitalism works. Does anybody believe solar energy efficiency is at its best? I personally don't, but then again, I don't know much at all on the tech. side.
    There was a thread a month or so ago where a huge solar PV farm in Arizona (run by the local utility) figured the cost of the solar PV power at $0.09 per kWhr--not including transmission costs as it was piggy backing on existing oil fired power plant's infrastructure. I am not sure that it will get much cheaper (talking 50-75% price drops). And that is only power available 6-8 hours a day--no costs for providing power during the other 18 hours a day of "dark".

    From physics, there are various equations that limit the efficiency of any power conversion process... For oil/gas fired plants that is around 50-55% or so maximum efficiency. You will not get any better (other than getting a cheaper energy source--like nuclear).

    For Silicon--I would guess the physics are pretty close to maximum there too. There are other materials that are more efficient (gallium arsenide is twice as efficient) but cost something like 10x as much...

    Solar thermal power plants are out there and running right now--probably competitively with solar PV types. And both have to (cheaply) solve the ability to provide power in the dark.

    In the end, it is not capitalism that is "working slowly"--it is laws of government and physics--and "cheap" oil, hydro, nuclear and the overhead costs to deliver energy that is limiting solar.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    In the mid to long term, I see solar branching out into two different scenarios.

    One for PV, which will mostly be small to medium home and commercial installations.

    The second for solar thermal, for large to giant projects.

    The reason I see thermal (as in superheated concentrated) is because heat is somewhat easier to store than electricity, and steam generated by solar concentrators could use existing steam turbines. You need a pretty large scale to make thermal cost effective - but some projections are that multi-megawatt thermal could cost less than nukes or coal.

    A lot depends on how the tech evolves, but I think this will happen over the next 10-30 years.
  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    I agree using super heated oil or brine can make solar thermal a 24/7 power station I know Spain is keen on it see, here
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    An article just published in our local paper (San Francisco, CA):

    Solar Industry Needs Workers:
    California's fascination with solar power has created thousands of jobs in the state and will probably add thousands more, according to a new survey of the industry.

    The survey, by two community college researchers, estimates that solar companies in California now employ between 16,500 and 17,500 people and may hire another 5,000 in the next year.

    Many of those new jobs will be in the Bay Area. The region already has between 6,900 and 8,000 solar jobs and could add 1,900 more in the next 12 months, the researchers found.

    Most of the job opportunities will be on the roof, not in the lab. The industry desperately needs people to install rooftop solar arrays, as more Californians plant photovoltaic panels on their homes. And that represents a great opportunity for community colleges, whose students could be prime candidates for the work, said survey co-author John Carrese. The industry also has openings for designers and salespeople.
    ...
    The survey's results come with one important caveat. Growth in the solar industry will depend on government programs that have spurred interest in solar power. If the federal government, for example, does not extend a tax credit for solar installations, the industry won't add as many jobs as it otherwise would have.

    "There's a number of question marks, although the industry is optimistic and looking to hire people," Carrese said.
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    Almost every company I know of wants installers, but quite often their problem is the same as ours - the work in most places is pretty seasonal.

    And it is hard to get decent people that know code to work when they don't know if they will have a job come winter.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    Here is an older article that lists the issues that were created by the state of California in 2006... Notice that the whole article is about confusing state regulations, onerous paperwork, delays in paperwork/inspections, increased staffing for fewer installs, and people conditioning their behavior on state rules...

    Tangled in Solar Paperwork (August of 2007, SF Chronicle):
    ...But the state's solar-rebate program underwent fundamental changes in January, bringing in new administrators, new requirements and more paperwork.

    As a result, the process of applying for and receiving rebates has become painfully slow, Cinnamon said. Some companies, Akeena included, deduct anticipated rebates from the customer's bill, then cash the checks when they arrive. Cinnamon still hasn't received rebates on systems he sold in January. It took until May to finish the paperwork.

    "Here we are in the middle of August, and we don't have a check," he said.

    Kinks in the new rebate process have been felt by installers throughout the state, members of the very industry the program is designed to help. Some have had to add staff just to handle the increased documentation....
    None of this is about "does solar photo-voltaic work for me and how can I get it installed on my home at a reasonable price." The whole article is about government regulations, tax/fee transfer payments and how businesses are struggling to make the paper work process work.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    some things never change bill.
  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Hello...and Help!

    Wind and Sun, I can see where you are coming from you require quality installers but cant promise 365 days a year work does this ultimately push up install costs, is it not possible to merge the two ? sales and install, sos if I crossed a line :blush: