Hybrid Cars

2

Comments

  • thehardway
    thehardway Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    The more I look the more I am favoring a 2000-2006 Honda Insight. I don't mind the small size or the rougher ride. The all aluminum body won't rust. I don't even need 2 seats for my commute as it is just me. I would drive a motorcycle or scooter if it wouldn't give my 83 yr old mother a coronary. By bottom line is saving $ for me. Local dealer has a 2001 with 120,xxx listed at 6995 I'im going to check out. It would pay for itself in gas alone.

    I think the Prius is a well built and engineered car but I can't see paying the markup for the marginal improvement in fuel economy. Same thing for the Volt. I was getting 42mpg hwy in my 97 cavalier. It was a 5spd and I know how to maximize fuel economy in a manual trans car. I hate automatics. I can buy a nice used manual trans cavalier for under 4K. Prius would be at least 6K+
    so for an extra 8-10 mpg plus battery replacement every 8 yrs. I don't see the payoff. I see more value in purchasing a Yaris than a Prius. More value in purchasing a Cruze than a Volt. Not trying to put down any of you volt or Prius owners, I envy you, I just can't see where the extra 10mpg warrants more than double the retail price and I can't afford the extra $ to pay for a hybrid sticker unless there is a payoff.

    I guess the payoff is in energy independence for US and I dig that, the problem is we when we get more efficient vehicles we just drive more as it is more "affordable". I see more benefit in building out CNG refueling structure as it would allow us to drive using a renewable and plentiful supply of US based fuel that is close to Gasoline in energy content, does not require a major shift in ICE based autos and does not impact food supplies like ethanol, is clean burning and keeps engines clean. It does not require the hazardous manufacturing and disposal systems that battery based cars will in the near future if we continue in that direction.
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Just as a BTW, if you commute less than 40 miles a day the Volt uses NO gas. Mine is @ 526 mpg and the wife's is at 690 mpg, Both charged off grid tie solar that is paid for and fully amortized. If you charge with a TOU plan @ about $0.06 kWh it costs less than $1 to go that 40 miles. $0.06 X 13.3 = $0.79 http://www.voltstats.net/ if you want to see some really crazy mpg numbers.

    You can't compare a Cruze to a Volt really. The Volt is more like a 3 series BMW than a Cruze. That being said, you can pick up a used Volt for about $22K if you look hard.

    Still gas cost is not the only reason to have a Volt or any Hybrid. Using less of that oil coming from those people that don't like us very much and putting our people in harms way to defend the supplies are both good motivators.
  • thehardway
    thehardway Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    My daily commute is about 85mi. round trip. That's if the wife doesn't want me to go by the store.

    I would have to make some kind of arrangement to charge at work which would probably make it a no go. Our electric Co-Op does not have a TOU plan. We pay a straight $0.11 kWh. I am trying to stay debt free so even 22K is way out of my reach. Add to that, just this weekend, the state of VA just passed a $100 annual registration fee on Hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles so as to make owners "pay their fair share" of the road use tax currently obtained from Gasoline tax which they avoid. http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/02/virginia-hybrid-vehicle-100-registration-fee-in-transportation-bill-85661.html I anticipate a lot of states will head in this direction soon, as hybrids continue to gain popularity but still take up space on the highway.
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    seeing the kind of mileage you've been getting i think you would get the best of any vehicle you would buy. (compliment) now i saw many vehicles when i was looking recently and i couldn't justify spending $6k-$10k with high miles. sure there's probably still allot more to go on some makes and models with higher maintenance before it gives out, but mile for mile the newer ones would be better. i bit the bullet and got an '08 civic at $12.5k and 41.5k miles. of course the interest tacks onto that allot and i wind up paying for 6yrs, but i am paying more than what they ask for per month to try and curb that in the long run. that's the high cost of not enough cash to buy outright.:cry: we are saving on gas as our other car was a 6 cyl taurus and this is 4 cyl, but that gets thwarted as we now have to pay collision insurance too. the hope is for it to be cheaper in the long haul for us and i think it will be. the price is just under double of what you proposed of 6995, but there's no comparison to the car you get. if you need to save more then do it as more toward the down payment will lower the cost of a newer used car spread out in payments.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    If your considering a yaris, it is pretty much the vehicl that replaced the Echo, has the same motor (which I think goes back to the late years of the Tercel). It comes a quite a premium in St Louis, I was looking around last winter and the New price was around 13K and most used vehicles through dealers started at $13K for a late model(previous 2 years)

    The Echo I think has better gas ratings it also has the center gauges like the Prious and Yaris (they are to the right of the wheel). Book runs 3-4K for a 2002-2006. it is an economy car, first car I've had in many years that doesn't have a clock of some sort, either in the dash or radio. Manual and automatic doesn't make a huge difference in milage anymore. I think the Echo has a 1mpg difference between the 2.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Brianellul
    Brianellul Solar Expert Posts: 95 ✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Hi guys.

    Thanks to all for your feedback. On comparing the Prius to the Auris, If I'm not mistaken, the Prius has a large battery pack ~ 27KWH while the Auris comes with a small 1.3KWH battery (201.6v x 6.5ah). On testing it was claimed that the average milage was 1.25 on just battery power... The difference is a lot. Looking at the Hybrid Auris, the manufacturer claims ~ 74mpg (61 mpg us) while on the road it was claimed thet the max they reached was 49mpg (40 mpg us). To be honest, these numbers don't look that great! Isn't the battery pack too small? and maybe that's why it just 2.5K Euro difference from a normal petrol car?

    Regards
    Brian
  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Are these cars sorta like off grid with batteries. Example; you pay $0.11 per kwh of power but with off grid battery system you might pay $0.40 per kwh.

    Is it with these cars that the fifty mpg isn't really that great if you add the charging cost and the facts that the batteries need replaced?

    I don't ask this to be a smart alic but because I don't know. I figure you guys do.
    Thanks
    gww
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars
    gww1 wrote: »
    Are these cars sorta like off grid with batteries. Example; you pay $0.11 per kwh of power but with off grid battery system you might pay $0.40 per kwh.

    Is it with these cars that the fifty mpg isn't really that great if you add the charging cost and the facts that the batteries need replaced?

    I don't ask this to be a smart alic but because I don't know. I figure you guys do.
    Thanks
    gww

    Let's see to charge a Volt with my off peak rate for about 40 miles range 13.3 kWh X $0.055 < $0.75 That is if I bought the electric but I don't I get mine from solar for free as my solar has paid for itself.
    Now a 40mpg car will burn 1 gallon of gas = $3.77 at today's pump price advertised as I drove by the station. Very few cars actually get 40mpg in town. Probably more like 1.5 times that price but just trying to be fair. So that 40 miles costs the ICE owner about $3 more than me and for 100,000 miles that is 2500 gallons of fuel X $3 about $7500

    My battery is fully warranted for 8 years or 100K miles to be 80% effective, replacement price after that will be about $3,000 per the GM price book, but I don't expect that will be needed even if the range is reduced.

    So looks like I am on the good side of that deal by far.
  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Solardave
    Thanks for the responce.
    gww
  • Organic Farmer
    Organic Farmer Solar Expert Posts: 128 ✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars
    gww1 wrote: »
    Are these cars sorta like off grid with batteries. Example; you pay $0.11 per kwh of power but with off grid battery system you might pay $0.40 per kwh.

    Is it with these cars that the fifty mpg isn't really that great if you add the charging cost and the facts that the batteries need replaced?

    I don't ask this to be a smart alic but because I don't know. I figure you guys do.
    Thanks
    gww

    I do not have a Plug-In, we have a Hybrid. I am a member on a Hybrid forum though.

    My hybrid does get 52 to 62 mpg, and the battery is covered by warranty.

    In the Hybrid forum, the discussion among Plug-in owners is that nation-wide the average full-charge costs around 35cents. If you plan to trade-in the vehicle before the warranty runs out, then the cost of replacing a battery without warranty does not enter the process.

    I used to own old beater cars until "the wheels rusted off". But times have changed. Vehicles do to last as they used to, vehicles are not designed to last 60 years anymore. I have had to make the adjustment in my thinking. I know that my cars will not last 60 years. So we have had to make the decision to trade-in our commuter vehicles, from now on, right before their warranty runs out.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Once again, to be contrary Re:cars lastin.

    I am of the opinon that even the worst car of today ( most, maybe not all!) is better than the best car of 30 years ago. Gone are points, carbs, drum brakes, all kinds of problems that were continual service issues. The issue nowadays is that many cars have complicated electronics that make them expensive to fix, and many repairs are not in the backyard mechanics repertoire.

    That said, my 70/80s vintage cars needed regular tune ups. My 99 Subru by contrast, in 175k miles has needed two replacement parts, a EGR valve, and a starter. Regular service in that mileage has been timing belts, one set of rotors, and two sets of pads, and tires. (it didn't need plugs until 125k!

    Tony
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Let me also kick in, the only regular maintenance items for a Volt is tire rotation @ 7500 miles, oil change every 2 years or when the computer indicates oil service life if you run the ICE more for longer trips. It will force a FMM (Fuel Maintenance Mode) to force the usage of old fuel about once a year if needed, and EMM (Engine Maintenance Mode) a short 3-5 minute run of the engine every 6 weeks or so to lube the thing if all you use is electric. Brake life is going to be extremely long as the light pedal application is all regeneration to the battery not pads on rotor. From what some higher mileage drivers are seeing looks like pads will go at least 100K miles. Many owners drive around town in L which is just a remap of the acceleration curve that does more regen when the foot is off the pedal. (some whine that there is no brake light with that but it is no worse than a downshift in an ICE car). Coolant systems is 100K mile service as well.

    Lots of interesting discussion over here:
    http://gm-volt.com/forum/
  • thehardway
    thehardway Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Icarus, I hear what you are saying and I would agree that today's cars run longer without major repair. No dispute there. But does that make them "better"? Where you may run into trouble is what happens after that major repair is required. Let's assume that Suby goes 300K and the body and running gear are still sound but youve got blue smoke coming out the tailpipe and oil on the garage floor. What is the cost to rebuild the motor and what does it take to do it? Can it even be rebuilt? will it ever run better than it came from the factory? What can you do to improve it?

    This is a thought shift that took place between the domestic and import markets back in the seventies and eighties. The US model was, build them cheap and make them cheap to repair with plentiful parts and lots of aftermarket options. If they go 100k you got your money's worth and you can cheaply rebuild the engine and go another 100K as long as you cared for the body and didn't let it rust out.

    The Import model (primarily japanese at that point) was to build it to last 200k or more, and don't sell cheap parts to repair it. Make them buy a new car. Since the backyard mechanic in the US has gone the way of the dodo bird, (primarily due to increased computer controls and electronics) the Japanese model has for the most part won out. Cars have to go at least 200K these days without major repair. (I have 280K on my 94 Ranger)

    There is however an interesting undercurrent surviving that has taken the import market by storm. The "tuner" market is busting wide open and demanding aftermarket parts, and crate replacement engines that can be more easily rebuilt or modified to increase power.
    The Subaru flat 4 is one of those tuner engines as are a few from Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and BMW.

    Turbos, Nitrous, computerized fuel management systems and a whole array of performance upgrades demanded by today's speed hungry youth are taking us back to the 60's and 70's.

    So what is better?

    Question? How many 40yr. old Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas and BMW's do you see on the road running today or in car shows? You might see a few 240, 260 or 280Z's now and then or an old restored BMW but nothing like the Chevelles, Novas, Mustangs, Chargers, Challengers, Corvettes, Cadillacs, GTO's, Camaro's, 65/57 Bel Airs, the list goes on.

    Technology has improved all engines by giving us better oil, longer lasting plugs, fuel injection, high tech alloys and polymers and CNC machining. All of these improve durability, driveability, efficiency and performance. All come at a cost. A man's bond with his machine. Cars are no longer babied, polished, admired preserved and passed down from father to son. They are instead rode hard, put put up wet and when worn out they are sent to the crusher. Will someone ever go hunting for your worn out Subaru and seek to restore it with painstaking detail, drive it in a parade with pride or enter it in a classic car auction to recieve 100k+ bids? What about that Prius or Volt or Leaf? Once again, "better" becomes a relative term depending on where you stand.

    The throwback mustangs, camaros and challengers are an interesting development and it will be interesting to see where they go.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Not to be argumentative, but I disagree on a number of levels. First, there is a huge difference between generic Subarus and classic heavy Detroit iron of the 60/70s. For every classic mustang or Vette there are thousands of mavericks and Novas long gone to the scrapper. What will be the sought after collectors car of today? Who knows? Who would have thought my 1958 23 window VW bus that I bought and sold for $75 would be worth ~$50k today?

    Yes, any engine/drive train can be rebuilt, the difference is that they almost never have to. At 20k miles a year, after ten years, most cars have reached thier functional obselecence not because of engine or drive train failure, but more because of rust, in most parts of the country. In the case if my Subaru, if it were to throw a rod today (god forbid!) I could buy a good used engine and do an install pretty reasonably.

    As for cars being better, just from the safety aspect, cars are MILES ahead of cars a generation ago. Radial tires, disc brakes, ABS brakes, air bags, side curtain air bag, traction control, ESC, AWD, real heat, real A\C, electronic spark control, fuel injection. I could go on and on.

    Yes cars have gotten more expensive, but pretty much at a rate that other things have gotten more expense. Factor in the reduction in service required, and I'm guessing that the per mile cost of ownership (in constant dollars) is likely to be less than that of a 1970 family car. In ~1970 the average price of a new car was ~$3k, and got maybe 12 mpg, with a service interval of 3-5k miles.

    According to wiki, the average annual wage 1970 was ~$6600/yr, so a car cost ~1/2 of your annual salary. Today, the averqge family car is what? ~$20k? Today's averge annual salary is ~$35k. So a new cr is roughly half an averge annual salary. The difference is how much more you get for yourmoney. The cheapest Hyndai, or Kia if today, is waaaay better than the cheapest VW, or Chevy or dare I say, Yugo of old.
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    this can be a very argumentative subject with varying opinions. i believe gas mileage was better than 12mpg in 1970 on average, but not by allot. i would say it was partially because of the new implementations of the air pollution controls that were on the ground floor of development. i did have a 65 impala with a 283 v8 that got 20mpg or better around town. my guess the average would've been closer to 15mpg about 1970. this fairs far better than $300 for just the computer and not mentioning all of the other now high priced parts that you need a diagnostic machine to put in. and even though we had to do those tuneups it didn't bother me to do them as i could do it myself fairly cheaply.

    i did recently see someplace that stated the average for a new car today is around $30000. i agree that seems high, but #20000 is unrealistically low from what i saw out there. i do have to agree that rust is the culprit as i just had to get rid of that 96 taurus that when bought just about 5 yrs previously was immaculate body wise and at 43k miles when bought we managed another 20k miles before it turned into a rust bucket. do know that it also had many other failings that totaled in the high thousands in the same timeperiod that i argued with my wife was throwing good money after bad a few years prior to when we finally got another car. i spent 4x as much in repairs for that 20k miles than i paid for the car in the first place. now i have a honda and hopefully i will now have a better car for longer, acknowledging this would be another can of worms in the discussion.
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Caps key broken, or just feeling very mellow? It gives me a headache to read. :-)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Niel The 70 model year cars still had high compression engines. 71 was the year they lowered the compression and made gas hogs without any power. With the computer cars they got the milage and power back by raising the compression again. My brother just got a new ford truck with a 5 litre v8 and it has 360 hp, 10.5 compression and epa of 15 21 and 17 mpg. I remember my 1974 302 pickup that got about 11 or 12 mpg if I was lucky and hardly had enough power to get out of its own tracks. I have had a few toyotas and still have a geo prizm which is a toyota. All the geo needed was battery, brakes tires and an alternator. So I think you will like your honda. They are preety reliable. solarvic
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    solarvic,
    right as i was going on the general early 70s rather than that one year in particular without realizing that was the crossover point.

    this statement,
    "hardly had enough power to get out of its own tracks"
    actually described my old 96 taurus. i couldn't peel rubber on it if i tried and i did a try few times as i was trying to get on the highway from an uphill ramp in heavy traffic and punching it got me nowhere fast. it sucked gas like a v8 though.:cry: this little 4 cylinder honda has more get up and go than the taurus did.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/09/04/is-30000-cheap-new-car-transaction-prices-rose-in-august/

    Seems that the average new car price is ~ $30k. To replace my Subaru would be ~$25, a new Prius can be had for $25 as well.

    Tony

    PS Niel generally doesn't use any caps.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars
    niel wrote: »
    i did have a 65 impala with a 286 v8...
    Wouldn't that have been a 283?

    (you are right as i stand corrected. getting older sucks. niel)
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    I miss the simplicity of my old vehicles. My '71 Ford van had one wire that ran the engine and I could gap the points with a matchbook cover.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Being somewhat old my self, I think believing that the older US made cars were more reliable other than the motor is just waxing nostalgic. I know I had a buick regal from that early 70's period, that I couldn't keep on the road, I could just keep pouring oil in it and the engin was fine, but replacing lots of the front end, the door hinges were worthless, engine mounts, etc, etc,... but it would pull my dad's 28' fixed keel boat (he gave it to me when my car died while starting a new job)

    Another thing to remember is unleaded gas changed a lot of engine wear issues, while it was a lubricant of sorts in the combustion chamber, it's deposits were also corrosive...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars
    Photowhit wrote: »
    Being somewhat old my self, I think believing that the older US made cars were more reliable other than the motor is just waxing nostalgic.
    One thing to consider, however, is the push to make things cheaper and cheaper and the corners that sometimes get cut in that pursuit. I had a 1970 Buick Electra 225 that was built like a tank. My wife got in an accident with a tow truck in that car; they had to get the wrecker towed away but my wife drove the Buick home.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Cheaper may be one driving issue--But fuel economy standards are another forcing very light weight cars. Some of the changes in structure to support controlled deformation (from crash tests and to meet government regulations) have been very helpful in saving lives (no more steering wheels crushing the rib cage)--However, that has to be balanced against an over all weaker structure and getting mixed up with trucks/heavier vehicles on the road.

    In the end, lighter cars to meet new CAFE (government fuel economy standards) will (are?) going to end up with more deaths (on average) as the cars need to meet the requirements.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars
    BB. wrote: »

    In the end, lighter cars to meet new CAFE (government fuel economy standards) will (are?) going to end up with more deaths (on average) as the cars need to meet the requirements.

    -Bill

    Until you come up against the "baseball principal". Inetdog will now explain that for us. :D

    For what it's worth, I replaced a carburetted '84 Suburban 2WD with a fuel injected '90 Suburban 4WD - and the fuel mileage was twice as good. Some of the changes over the years have indeed been improvements. But not all of them.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars
    Until you come up against the "baseball principal". Inetdog will now explain that for us. :D
    Um, it starts on March 31st? :D
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars
    Until you come up against the "baseball principal". Inetdog will now explain that for us. :D

    I would love to, but I am not sure what you are referring to. (BTW, "baseball principle" unless you are talking about the headmaster of a baseball school)
    There are all sorts of things involving spin, but that sounds too much like politics. Or else the same effect as applies to golf balls that to keep the game competitive and entertaining you have to prevent the ball from being too "good"?
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    Tsk, tsk, tsk.

    At least youspotted the incorrect word. :p

    gee marc, we were just discussing this a bit the previous day and you did it one post after another. what is youspotted, a new verb?:roll::p:p, niel
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    My turn to 'wax nostalgic' with this baseball blip and waiting for the snow to melt...

    If you want to tive a life time in 5 minutes find Tom Paxton's "My Favorite Spring" I always break it out about this time of year and put it in rotation with what ever music I'm listening to. I listen to a lot of folk music and this has to be one of if not my favorite ballads.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hybrid Cars

    gee marc, we were just discussing this a bit the previous day and you did it one post after another. what is youspotted, a new verb?:roll::p:p, niel

    Testing, Niel; always testing. :p
    Now how many 'typos' of mine has no one noticed? Well we don't know 'cause no one noticed them! :D

    The Baseball Principle is the fact that when the ball hits the bat it stops and reverses direction. Upon impact it deforms as the energy changes direction (and some is lost to heat and some is added by the bat force). The idea is that if a car could be constructed like the baseball it would upon impact with another object, deform slightly and then reverse direction - bouncing off instead of crumpling up like tinfoil. Then all you'd have to worry about is the whiplash.

    So far it hasn't been done. (So-called "impact absorbing" bumpers don't.)