Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

mtdoc

Submitted without comment: Fox News Claims Solar Won't Work in America Because It's Not Sunny Like Germany:roll:

westbranch

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Pity, PV only works in Germany??

At least they had the sense to look up the facts about the weather / Climate data for both ' nation states'

Cariboocoot

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Okay guys, I know it's just about impossible to comment on this without making a political statement.

Or at least making allusions about differing amounts of insolation being available to various individuals depending on exactly where their head is at.

But let's try not to start anything bad, okay?

BB.

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Yea--and it is not all sunny in Germany on the cost of power front, from October 2012:

Germany's four leading electrical grid operators -- RWE, E.ON, Vattenfall and EnBW -- announced on Monday that they would be hiking by 47 percent the charge to consumers that goes into financing subsidies for producers of renewable energy. For the time being, solar, wind and biomass power make up a quarter of the country's electricity supply but are set to account for 80 percent by 2050.
Germany's status as a global leader in clean energy technology has often been attributed to the population's willingness to pay a surcharge on power bills.
But now that surcharge for renewable energy is to rise to 5.5 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) in 2013 from 3.6 in 2012. For an average three-person household using 3,500 kWh a year, the 47 percent increase amounts to an extra €185 on the annual electricity bill.

But, don't worry, there are folks that are exempt from the taxes:

"For many households, the increased surcharge is affordable," energy expert Claudia Kemfert from the German Institute for Economic Research told AFP. "But the costs should not be carried solely by private households."
But experts have pointed out that with many energy-intensive major industries either exempt from the tax or paying a reduced rate, the costs of the energy revolution are unfairly distributed.

And, big surprise, 1/2 the taxes go to prop up the power companies (not supporting the costs of "green power"):

Meanwhile, the German Federal Association of Renewable Energies (BEE) maintains that not even half the surcharge goes into subsidies for green energy. "The rest is plowed into industry, compensating for falling prices on the stock markets and low revenue from the surcharge this year," BEE President Dietmar Schütz told the influential weekly newspaper Die Zeit.

That the average household of three is using around 300 kWH per month--That is pretty impressive conservation (and probably one reason why power companies are having fiscal problems).

What that politicians are saying (tax increases to support green power) is not really what they are doing (transfers of cash to major companies/supporters). It is almost as if their lips are moving, then they are just lying to the voters.

-Bill

mtdoc

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Or at least making allusions about differing amounts of insolation being available to various individuals depending on exactly where their head is at.

Tried to quantify without success: the Solar Pathfinder wouldn't fit....

Cariboocoot

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

If anyone is wondering, Germany is at about the same North Latitude as British Columbia with Berlin being around 52 degrees the same as where I am.

Gets pretty dark here come Winter. How does Deutschland fair better than we do?

BB.

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Lots of beer and pretty girls?

-Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

BB. wrote: »

Lots of beer and pretty girls?

-Bill

Canada has plenty of both, Bill.

niel

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Canada has plenty of both, Bill.

yes, but it's the gals that need to drink the beer.:p

i find it interesting for her to imply solar basically did not exist without federal government monies. really? news to me.
they did miss that germany did give heavy incentives for solar. they also missed that solar isn't capable of being the prime power source, but it is a supplemental power source. the problems of people using far too much power and not conserving in addition to grid problems and power company short comings all contribute to a widespread problem. it isn't solar's fault or up to solar to fix people.

in relation to solar, the real problem starts with ignorance and those newscasters must have a degree in it. btw, that wasn't a sunburn on the people in germany, but more than likely frostbite. i wonder if she flunked geography? enough said don't you think?

btw, i moved the thread up here as it is more of an opinion based review of a news segment.

stephendv

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Could you educate this silly foreigner... but isn't Fox news a spoof news network like The Onion? I've seen a few of their reports, but I thought they were spoof stories. No one in their right minds would actually say any of that stuff, nevermind broadcast it as actual news right?

niel

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

stephen,
all news from the networks could be better reported, but a spoof network is not what they are supposed to be. there are just so many networks that have over the air tv stations and fewer of these have actual national news. fox, i believe, is now only reporting news nationally via satellite/cable and i'm not sure if they stopped all ota news broadcasts nationally from tv stations, but they used to have it here from a national feed ota. fox is one of the major networks that we might expect better journalism from, but that we apparently aren't getting it in this case.

Ralph Day

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

fox is one of the major networks that we might expect better journalism from, but that we apparently aren't getting it in this case.

From Niel, the Master of the understatement

Ralph

BB.

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

It is a very common occurrence--We read a news story (from anywhere) that contains "facts" about subject matters that we are familiar with, and the reports are full of basic errors.

Then we go on to read other articles about other subjects that we have know direct knowledge and don't think twice about what we read and the accuracy (or lack there in).

There is a difference between bias and accuracy... Regarding accuracy--I don't think any news channel/network news does very well on those counts.

Regarding bias, Fox is actually much more neutral (or actually broadcasting views from both sides) than MSNBC/CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC/NPR/PBS/etc.... And what folks see outside of the US is different than what we see inside the US. For example, CNN International has a much wider/larger share of audience vs CNN US. In the US, CNN is a weak 3rd place in news.

But in any case--All US News agencies tends to focus on trigger points that viewers/readers claim they don't care about (polls/campaign issues/horse race) and very little on hard policy/results and such. So, are the agencies giving people what they want to see/read or not (i.e., difference between ratings and what people say they would watch)?

In the US, for cable news networks, Fox News has the largest audience for 10+ years. But that is not to say it a huge audience... They average somewhere around 1-3 million viewers on their top shows... Where the big three over the air network news programs average 10 million each, or more. On cable overall, it is still #3 or #4 cable network overall (behind USA and ESPN in Total Viewers).

I don't get any of the cable channels, and did not really watch them much when I did anyway (too repetitive on news stories--if it bleeds, it leads).

-Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

BB. wrote: »

It is a very common occurrence--We read a news story (from anywhere) that contains "facts" about subject matters that we are familiar with, and the reports are full of basic errors.

Then we go on to read other articles about other subjects that we have no direct knowledge of and don't think twice about what we read and its accuracy (or lack there of).

Speak for yourself, Bill; as a life-long cynic I question the accuracy of every news report. Especially weather forecasts.

(Quoted content of Bill's post adjusted for accuracy. )

BB.

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

One man's editorial correction is another's censorship.:p;)

My saying is about 1/2 of what you read/watch is true/accurate--The problem is figuring out which is which.

-Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

BB. wrote: »

One man's editorial correction is another's censorship.:p;)

My saying is about 1/2 of what you read/watch is true/accurate--The problem is figuring out which is which.

-Bill

"They're all true. Especially the lies." - Elam Garrick

mtdoc

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

BB. wrote: »

It is a very common occurrence--We read a news story (from anywhere) that contains "facts" about subject matters that we are familiar with, and the reports are full of basic errors.

Then we go on to read other articles about other subjects that we have know direct knowledge and don't think twice about what we read and the accuracy (or lack there in).

There is a difference between bias and accuracy... Regarding accuracy--I don't think any news channel/network news does very well on those counts.

Good points! I agree.;)

Regarding bias, Fox is actually much more neutral (or actually broadcasting views from both sides) than MSNBC/CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC/NPR/PBS/etc..

With all due respect (and trying to tread lightly good moderators), this is your opinion which is not supported by most of the studies that have looked at this issue. And in my opinion most Americans would disagree with your assessment. Can we agree to disagree?

I will say I agree that all the major media have their biases and slants - particularly when dealing with political stories (as unfortunately RE stories have become). All of them have their corporate owners and sponsors, it just happens that Fox's is Rupert Murdoch. None of them are very good at accuracy and they rarely do any investigative reporting anymore. Fortunately in the age of the internet we all have access to other sources of news, analysis and investigative journalism. Pity most don't bother to look for it.

In the US, for cable news networks, Fox News has the largest audience for 10+ years.

Well, yes since they are the only major hard right leaning (IMHO of course!) and there are several left leaning or neutral ones to share the non rightward audience, this makes sense....

Not trying stir up anything here - (and trying very hard to avoid starting a pointless political debate) just trying to highlight what is opinion and agree that there are biases and inaccuracies present in all of our poor excuses for mainstream media.

Now back to the work in my sunny pacific NW home which gets about the same solar insolation as Germany....:roll:

Cariboocoot

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

The inevitable media slant in this country is towards "whatever will attract the most attention" as that means viewers/readers/listeners which ups their market share and justifies higher commercial rates.

Beyond that they don't any of them seem to have much interest in facts and follow-up.

As I've already admitted, I'm a cynic.

westbranch

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

My cynical view is "If they can get 15 seconds out of it that 'seems to have a theme', IT MUST BE NEWS"

We get 2 of the Nationally broadcast networks here that we can watch in order, and at times you would wonder if its the same item being reported on, because they are radically different... reporter bias? or network policy?

niel

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

wow guys, i wasn't even delving into biases, but just commenting on their lack of real knowledge of the facts that a good journalist should have. in any case i covered that all of them are guilty to one degree or another of this ineptness. i usually don't watch any of them as they are all usually either pushing a viewpoint or just filling in time with nonsense. i can't say for certain there is bias from them in that report, but at the very least it is poor journalism with false facts.

my reply was to stephen of whom he is relatively unfamiliar with how fox fits into the scheme of the news reporting here. i would probably say that it had its roots in spoof type reporting, but grew to a major news agency. maybe that is where you got your impression of them? discussing the matter of news reporting can be borderline political so we do have to tread lightly here on the matter.

Cariboocoot

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

What surprised all of us, I think, is that any news agency claiming "legitimacy" (at whatever level) should report a story with such obvious factual errors. Really; any kid in high school should know more about geography. :roll:

gww1

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

The news all act like it is mana from heaven if gas prices go down $0.03 per gallon. They all spread the lie that snow in montana or a fire in arizona is a good reason for gas prices to rise. If I turn my chanel on the local news stations I will get exactly the same news with the same wording at the same time repeated every 5 min for one half hour from all of them. The only thing that might change is the commercials. I listen but figure they all have the same ajenda and think the public are idiots. See that was a general statement and you didn't see me pointing out how one way fox news is.

cheers
gww

Slappy

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

YouTube ..... fox news hates solar power ....by liberal viewer

BB.

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

mtdoc wrote: »

With all due respect (and trying to tread lightly good moderators), this is your opinion which is not supported by most of the studies that have looked at this issue. And in my opinion most Americans would disagree with your assessment. Can we agree to disagree?

Not a problem--I learn a lot from people that have differing views than I.

However, I posted a link to a 2007 early presidential campaign coverage by "Pew Research and Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics, and Policy out of Harvard University/JFK School of Government".

Vs a Wikipedia link quoting a 1/2 dozen Democratic presidential candidates, a couple of newscasters/opinion hosts from non-Fox stations, one Fox commentator (O'Reilly) who is not a conservative, and one conservative who says "...Fox is less a bastion of ideological conservatism and more a populist, tabloid-like network." And the Wiki article is using data from non-right media critics such as self identified (in Wiki) "Progressive media watch dog groups such as Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR)^[15] and Media Matters for America,^[16] have argued that Fox News reporting contains conservative editorializing within news stories."

I really enjoy discussing these sort of topics in a friendly forum like here... However, it can go a bit past where our host would like... Energy/Conservation and related policies and politics is OK--But going much beyond that can get us into strongly held beliefs and opinions that could damage the forum (and yes, I have been "moderated" on politics here too--So it is enforced on all sides).

Peace.
-Bill

stephendv

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Thanks for the explanations Neil and Bill; I originally thought fox news was an ironic spoof because it seemed so over-the-top. From the amount of paint splashed on the blonde presenter to their extreme views (which I now realise are shared by 1 million americans.... probably the most frightening thing I've read all year).

Entertainment masquerading as news, is sadly, something that we see over here too.

Regarding this particular story, there's an interesting quote from here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/02/07/fox_news_expert_on_solar_energy_germany_gets_a_lot_more_sun_than_we_do_video.html

In fact, NREL senior scientist Sarah Kurtz said via email, "Germany's solar resource is akin to Alaska's," the U.S. state with by far the lowest annual average of direct solar energy.

mtdoc

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

BB. wrote: »

Not a problem--I learn a lot from people that have differing views than I.

Cool, me too!:D

Personally, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the whole Red/Blue, Conservative/Liberal dichotomy is a meaningless waste of time and does nothing more than distract from the more important dichotomy which exists between the large corporate and financial elite and the rest of us working or retired stiffs trying to hold on to a reasonable share of the pie. It seems to me that the media bozos paraded across the television screen - whether it's Fox or MSNBC - are there just to keep our eyes off the real issues. Bread and circuses - a la Roma if you will.....

Oh but now I'm way off topic.. sorry

Windsun

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

I think it has been a while since any of the "news" channels actually spent most of their time on actual news and facts. It is not just Fox - I have seen similar really stupid statements on the pro-solar side on CNBC, where some guest claimed that "a couple of solar panels could save thousands of dollars a year".

But if you think this is limited to pseudo-news sources, just take a look at some of the articles on http://www.skeptic.com/ , http://www.factcheck.org/ and similar sites. There is a lot of truth in the statement "most of what people 'know' is not true".

BB.

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

And a couple days ago a CNN anchor asked Bill Nye the Science Guy (degree in mechanical drawing/engineering?) a couple days ago if:

Miss Feyerick then turned to a feature on a large asteroid that will just miss Earth as it passes by on Feb. 15.
“We want to bring in our science guy, Bill Nye, and talk about something else that’s falling from the sky, and that is an asteroid,” the anchor said. “What’s coming our way? Is this the effect of, perhaps, global warming? Or is this just some meteoric occasion?”
Mr. Nye didn’t gratify the speculation but instead focused on the asteroid itself, saying the impact could level an entire city. The asteroid will miss Earth by about 15 minutes, the “science guy” said.

It is why I really don't even like Presidential debates... Throwing out "facts" with no chance to research/confirm/fill in the details and complexities of real life. I think they should both have screens with the "fact list" they wish to discuss/present with chances for updates in real time (probably will turn into another spin room--and useless).

-Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Uh, anyone dumb enough to think asteroids are connected to global warming should not have the same voting rights as me.

The fact is many asteroids "just miss" Earth surprisingly often. This is on a astronomy scale. On a human scale they're still millions of miles (or kilometers) away.

When Mr. Nye was talking about missing Earth "by 15 minutes" I hope he was talking about some application of geometry as everyone knows distance is not measured in time, and an asteroid is not a #10 bus.

niel

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

coot,
actually, i don't have the same voting rights as you as i can't vote in canada. visa versa too i think.:-)

as far as the time goes, it could be an indicator of distance as the earth travels around the sun. it could be 15min in front of us or 15min behind us. going by the speed of 66,000mph
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100212045440AAVwAbi
15min represents a distance of 1/4 that or 16,500 miles and that's quite close being we have satellites that are farther away.

inetdog

Re: Fox News: Sunnier in Germany

Cariboocoot wrote: »

When Mr. Nye was talking about missing Earth "by 15 minutes" I hope he was talking about some application of geometry as everyone knows distance is not measured in time, and an asteroid is not a #10 bus.

Here in the US, busses do not run on schedule anyway (at least not the urban ones.)