Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Cariboocoot

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

inetdog wrote: »

FWIW, the bolt will be less affected by missing the exact center of the member than a lag screw would.

That can be corrected by installing extra bracing beneath the panel area in line with where the mounting bolts will go. As with all such structural issues you have to know what you're doing of course.

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Cariboocoot wrote: »

That can be corrected by installing extra bracing beneath the panel area in line with where the mounting bolts will go. As with all such structural issues you have to know what you're doing of course.

Ya, when I told the building inspector that solar panels were going up on top, he recommended hurricane strapping. . . so the roof joists are firmly attached to the wall joists now (strapped), the only weak spot, is where the steel roof attaches to the plywood roof - the 2 x 4 strapping underneath is nailed on with 3 inch nails - 1 into every joist . . the wall and 2x6 roof framing is not going anywhere, but the whole steel cap may just blow off . . .

may have to brace on the inside with the same steel that the frame is made out of , and run a threaded rod thru the whole thing . . . I am going to guess that 2 rods in the bottom frame and 2 rods in the top frame should do it . . kitty corner kind a thing. . . how many holes DO I want to punch thru my new roof

Two more to build . . . and I am running out of summer :grr

inetdog

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Skippy wrote: »

. . . how many holes DO I want to punch thru my new roof

I guess it depends on whether you would prefer a lot of little holes or one big hole when the roof blows off. :-)

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

inetdog wrote: »

I guess it depends on whether you would prefer a lot of little holes or one big hole when the roof blows off. :-)

Ha . . Ha. . . one of the guys helping me install the threaded rods agree, that if they blow off NOW, I will probably never find the roof or panels again. . . if the wind is blowing THAT hard, they are going to be GONE...:D Edit : I just noticed that if you look closely, you can see the hurricane strapping in the pictures . . .

Bit of an update for you guys. . . One set of panels up and complete, second frame up , third frame 1/4 done. . .

The guy working in the inside of the shed failed to tell me that the 2x4 in the second picture did not reach all the way across to the 4 th joist. .. it has to be replaced to work properly. . .

3 done ! 6 to go. :cool:

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Well . . . I have all the panels up, now what size wire do I need for 108 volts DC ? About 24 amps. ? A run of about 25 feet.

NorthGuy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Skippy wrote: »

Well . . . I have all the panels up, now what size wire do I need for 108 volts DC ? About 24 amps. ? A run of about 25 feet.

Assuming it's 25 feet in one direction, #8 will give you 18W loss at full production, or you can go with #6 if you want to cut losses to 11W.

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Thanks for the info - # 6 wire it is.

Now that I am not trying to type into my phone, here is a few pics of the array construction. I will be running a few questions by you guys as I progress with the wiring . . . Thank you in advance.

solar_dave

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Better cut down that tree!

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

solar_dave wrote: »

Better cut down that tree!

Ya, I noticed that one.

I hope, I can keep the trees that are growing on that side of the shed, while keeping them pruned between 5 and 12 feet high. . . will have to see. . I can always chop em down.

While on the topic, I have a midnight battery meter that comes with so many feet of wire (5 or 6 feet ?) to connect to the batteries. . . I would like to have it remote . . so if the battery is in the shed 25 linear feet or so away from the location of the meter, what size of wire would I need to run the "leads" to the batteries ? Or can I ?

I am in the process of putting in buried lines - 2 - 120 V - 15 amp lines out from the shed and 1 - 120 V - 15 amp line into the shed - and want to put in the meter cable while I am at it. Still have to talk to an electrician to see what kind of wires to run. . ..

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Skippy wrote: »

While on the topic, I have a midnight battery meter that comes with so many feet of wire (5 or 6 feet ?) to connect to the batteries. . . I would like to have it remote . . so if the battery is in the shed 25 linear feet or so away from the location of the meter, what size of wire would I need to run the "leads" to the batteries ? Or can I ?

I am in the process of putting in buried lines - 2 - 120 V - 15 amp lines out from the shed and 1 - 120 V - 15 amp line into the shed - and want to put in the meter cable while I am at it. Still have to talk to an electrician to see what kind of wires to run. . ..

Bit of an update on the solar shed . . .

Been working on putting the steel on the shed, almost done. . . saving a bit of money doing the steel myself . . .

Called the building inspector . . -NOW- he wants to check with his boss to see if he can "sign off" on the shed. . . might be able to get away with a blueprint of the panel mounts - or - may have to get a solar engineer to o.k. it first. . . will keep you guys updated . .

The guy who sold me the panels has a "solar engineer" that I can call, but I was told it will be 1,500 $ right of the top . . just to get the guy to look at it. . .

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Quick update. The building inspector likes the shed and the panels, unfortunately - the Chief building inspector says no, I have to get the panels and the mountings engineered. . . Letyou guys know how much it costs. . .

Skippy

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Went back to the guy who sold me the panels - who then put me in touch with a solar panel engineer.

So far, I have heard :
350 $ just to come out and have a look.
200 $ for a written letter of approval
400 $ for a drawing of approval.

Still going at it !

BB.

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Yep... That is why I went turnkey for my GT system... It just was not worth it for me (on many levels) to do myself.

-Bill

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

BB. wrote: »

Yep... That is why I went turnkey for my GT system... It just was not worth it for me (on many levels) to do myself.

-Bill

The person who sold me these panels has offered to upgrade them to GT . . 100 $ per panel for the inverters, then all I have to do is run the 240 V wiring to the shed. . .

I just hate the idea, of having all these panels, and the power goes out. . . my buddies would be laughing their butts off if I was right beside them in the emergency warming center - because I have no power !

Once the grid goes down the panels go down with it . - so I go with a battery.

Oh, a wood stove is next on my list by the way. . .

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Good news, the building inspector only needs a written letter of aproval. . just saved 200 $ 8)

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Well guys, I am still hanging in there... I now have a letter from the building inspector saying that I can move into the shed, but the panels have to be engineered . . so the shed portion of the project is done.

After getting the solar engineer out and having a look at the array, I went in the other day for a meeting, and he is making up a list of little improvements that I have to make in order for it to be used. I asked him to engineer it for use in it's full upright postion - winter time setting - and the snow can slide off it as well. The reccomended improvements are all things that I can do myself, and the engineer says that the building inspector can come in and do the final inspection, so I do not have to get the engineer out for another site inspection ( $$ ) So far, I have to :

replace every lag bolt with a - thru the roof rod, with a 1.5 x 1.5 angle iron on the inside - the 2x4 just doesn't cut it.
put hurricane strapping on every roof truss - currently I did a pattern of 2 -1 -2 - 1 . . . 2 strapped - skip one and so on
put hurricane strapping at the bottom of every wall stud down to bottom plate of wall - nothing there now.
then I have too run a threaded rod thru the bottom plate with a steel angle iron under the floor joists - to hold the whole unit together, as well as give me something to anchor it too.
Put in 6 - 2,000 lb ground anchors - 3 on each side of the shed, then tie them into the bottom angle iron on the shed.

Keeping in mind, that the array is at least 14 feet square - angled at about 65 degree's - rated for an 80 km/h wind . . . sounds like it should hold it. . .

I guess the scaled tank and the rocket mass heater are not enough to hold it down. go figure...

The good thing is that my local utility will come in and put in a net meter - one that will run backwards for between 300 and 500$ - and let me do the net metering . . . save a bit on batteries and equipment.

Keep ya updated as I go !

Cariboocoot

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

I didn't know they had hurricanes in Ontario. Silly me would have been more concerned with snow loading.

westbranch

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Skippy, where is it that you live in Ontario, that has as much hurricane potential as Florida?

niel

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

i think they are messing with him as even large buildings aren't scrutinized that badly up there, are they?

westbranch

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

I'm thinking it is the Fear Factor, fear of the unknown that is (solar).

Or I could conspiracyize a lot more...

Photowhit

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Skippy wrote: »

Keeping in mind, that the array is at least 14 feet square...

? a single panel 39x66 is more than 14 square feet...

I hope the other guys are referring to the ground anchors, which are required in Florida due to the wind loading, hurricane ties are just little pieces of metal common in the building trade;

Attachment not found.

When I looked for an image of what I've always called a 'hurricane tie' many different types of metal connectors came up, but this is what I'm familiar with...

Cariboocoot

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

niel wrote: »

i think they are messing with him as even large buildings aren't scrutinized that badly up there, are they?

No, only small sheds it seems. :grr

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Photowhit wrote: »

? a single panel 39x66 is more than 14 square feet...
I hope the other guys are referring to the ground anchors, which are required in Florida due to the wind loading, hurricane ties are just little pieces of metal common in the building trade;
Attachment not found.

That is exactly what he wants me too put in - in general terms that pic is a hurricane strap - one on each wall joist . . . I asked the engineer to engineer this set up in the winter time setting. . which means the entire array will be tilted up at a 70 degree (?) or so angle.. he came up with a wind speed of 80 kph . . so that is what I have to set it up for. . . I can see the need to attach all the members together . . what would be the point of tieing the walls into the floor but not the roof into the walls ? 14 square feet @ 70 degrees - would really catch that wind !

I have heard warnings on the radio in this area of "potential" wind speeds of 70 kph during severe weather. . . so I don't mind adding the extra tie downs. . .:roll: It has gotten a bit freaky here some times . .. you know, the kind of weather that has you thinking . . "maybe it's time to check out the basement . . "

At one point, I was working with a "storm watcher" . .. every break time we would be outside looking at the weather . . at one point right above were we worked, the cloud layer was doing this slow rotational turning . . that is as close as I wanna get !

Now the question is, can I put in a single #6 buried cable to run the shop, and intertie the entire shed into the house panel, or do I have to run a wire in for the panels, and one out for the shop power ? Know what I mean ?

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Photowhit wrote: »

? a single panel 39x66 is more than 14 square feet...

Sorry about that, I missed a few posts, didn't scroll back far enough. . . I picked up the paper work for the shed today, and they call those little metal straps "hurricane straps" in this area . .

And yes, I goofed up on the measurements. . . 14 feet x 14 feet . . almost 200 square feet tilted up at 70 or 80 degrees in an 80 km wind . . I'm doing what the engineer tells me too . .

As for scrutinizing . . well . . the building inspector won't sign off on the thing till it's engineered . . and it's kinda hard to hide in the middle of town . . oh, and if you look up my place on google earth . . you can see it plain as day !

I'm on holidays now, so I can work on straping this thing down and burying the cables after I apply for the net metering . . . keep you guys updated .

CDN_VT

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

NorthGuy wrote: »

It may be cheaper to buy newer energy efficient model of washing mashine and/or fridge rather than build up solar capacity to run old ones. I bought a new fridge which is twice as big as my old one (which was 30 year old) and uses less than half the power of the old one. Replacing old washer with new frontloader also saves power.

Until !!! you need to replace boards & no longer available parts for those five year old replacement items . Click & clunk machines use a bit more power but last . JFYI .

& I hope Im not cursing U , but many have been gouged.
VT

EDIT Add Gents ,, Didn't see it had started B4 2013..

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Well guys, now that I have a rather large array, out there were everyone can see it, I am running into alot of different opions.

Had one person tell me that I can turn the hydro off entirely, that the array should do my entire house - electric heat and hot water included - NO PROBEM !

Then on the other hand, I just had someone tell me the other day, that I wasted alot of money for nothing. . this array that I put up won't even run my fridge.

The thing that really makes me smile, is when I ask them too supply the numbers - i.e. it's a 2 kw array, why won't it run a 1 kw A DAY fridge ? - all I get is ---- it won't work. Go figure eh ?

As for the status of the project, I poured the concrete piers, and have anchored the bottom of the shed to the concrete piers. . . now I just have to put in the ties on the roof trusses, and redo the thru bolts on the roof. At the same time, I buried the wiring to go into the shed (power for lights and stuff), as well going from the shed into the house (dedicated 240 line for the panels).

I'll keep ya updated.

Oh, and when I showed the engineered drawings to the local building inspector, he just shook his head and said "holy crap ! - it wasn't going anywhere BEFORE - it's not going to move now ! "

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

oh, I forgot. . does anyone have a copy of masonary heating codes out there ? I am looking for ASTM E 1602-03 solid fuel burning appliances and massonary heater code - or something like that.

I informed the local building inspector that you can build rocket mass heaters to this standard, so he is trying to find a copy - so that I can build my rocket mass heater to this standard. I believe the state of ohio (?) has implemented a 1 week aproval process for RMH's - so he is going to call down and see if he can get a copy of that building code.

I think he wants me to build this thing more than I do :cool:

Any help would be great !;)

Photowhit

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Skippy wrote: »

I think he wants me to build this thing more than I do :cool:

Yippy Skippy! (sorry, I've been waiting to use that)

It's almost always a good thing when the building inspector takes an interest in what your doing!

Skippy

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

Well guys, I have alot of pictures for ya, but when I tried to type out the post, it wouldn't take em all. . . what, is there a maximum size for posts and pics ?

I am making real progress on the RMH . . so should I do multiple posts ? Oh, and the building inspector loves it that I can have the fire burning over 1000 F - with the top of the barrel at 800 F - bottom of the barrel at 250 F and the stuff coming out of the chimeny is around 110 F - had it all up and running and he could put his hand in the chimeny. . . no smoke coming out either - it burns everything. I wanna post pictures

When I figure out the picture thing, I will post in the "energy use and conservation" unless it could go elsewhere ?

Photowhit

Re: Ready ! - Aim ! - ...

There is a free photo editing program called Irfanview Just use Image drop down menu and 'resize' so that the longest width is 800 pixels(Px) or the tallest is 600 Px this should make the images large enough to view and the files small enough to load.