32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

weedtreehuggerweedtreehugger Posts: 8Registered Users
Hi, I'm new to this forum, but not to wind power. In the '80's I rebuilt & put up a Wincharger 32volt single blade & ran it for a couple years ,until it vibrated off the tower. I want to try again withe same generator, and combine w/ solar. Can I charge a 24volt bat bank w/ my 32volt machine? And also charge w/ a24volt solar bank? Thanks.

Comments

  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?
    Hi, I'm new to this forum, but not to wind power. In the '80's I rebuilt & put up a Wincharger 32volt single blade & ran it for a couple years ,until it vibrated off the tower. I want to try again withe same generator, and combine w/ solar. Can I charge a 24volt bat bank w/ my 32volt machine? And also charge w/ a24volt solar bank? Thanks.

    i am not familiar with the wind turbine, but for the turbine that might depend on the consistent voltages you would see from it. if it hovers around 24v for your winds then this would not be good enough to deliver a charge to a 24v battery bank as this may require voltages up to around 30v+. consistent 32v would be good to charge a 24v battery bank as it even would have the 2v leeway for the regulation circuit requirements and other losses. that is cutting it way too close and my gut says no on 24v. you know what it can do better than i though.

    the requirements for solar are the same as consistency in voltage is needed. now pvs during high heat can lose a bit of the voltage and they tend to be pulled down in voltage under optimal load (at their max power point) so you will have a higher need on the voltage specs. for 24v batteries we like to see about 35v or better for the vmp total. if the vmp voltage goes too high then we often recommend an mppt cc to maximize the charge to the batteries. what may be considered too high is up for debate and even 34.5v would work with 35v-38v as a typical good range one can use for pwm ccs if so desired.
  • weedtreehuggerweedtreehugger Posts: 8Registered Users
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?
    niel wrote: »
    i am not familiar with the wind turbine, but for the turbine that might depend on the consistent voltages you would see from it. if it hovers around 24v for your winds then this would not be good enough to deliver a charge to a 24v battery bank as this may require voltages up to around 30v+. consistent 32v would be good to charge a 24v battery bank as it even would have the 2v leeway for the regulation circuit requirements and other losses. that is cutting it way too close and my gut says no on 24v. you know what it can do better than i though.

    the requirements for solar are the same as consistency in voltage is needed. now pvs during high heat can lose a bit of the voltage and they tend to be pulled down in voltage under optimal load (at their max power point) so you will have a higher need on the voltage specs. for 24v batteries we like to see about 35v or better for the vmp total. if the vmp voltage goes too high then we often recommend an mppt cc to maximize the charge to the batteries. what may be considered too high is up for debate and even 34.5v would work with 35v-38v as a typical good range one can use for pwm ccs if so desired.

    Thanks for your prompt reply.
    My turbine is a 1930's Wincharger 32 volt 1200 watt with the single blade and a paddle governor. I had it running for a couple of years and it put out 90 to 100 kw per month ( I had a meter form the electric company). It charged a large 32 volt bank of telephone co batteries. Ran lights and one 32 volt motor in my cabinet shop. I know it will put out enough voltage for the 24v bank of batteries, what I am wondering is if I will lose a lot of amperage if it is only charging 24volt instead of 32v, and if I can run it on the same battery bank as a 24 volt photovoltaic system? Or will it overcharge the batteries if it is putting out 36 volts? It is a DC generator.
  • Ken MarshKen Marsh Posts: 114Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Does it have a regulator? The regulators of that era were electromechanical, vibrating armature type.
    If so, it probably will not be any good. They did not last long.
    At any rate if it has a regulator and if it is working, you would need to recalibrate to run on 24 volts.
    You might be able to put some more turns on the coil to make it operate at 24 volts.
    Sometimes they had a series resistance in the sense circuit.
    If so, cutting it down or taking it out completely would lower its control point.

    Or you could just hook it up to a 24 V battery. It would charge it.
    But it could overcharge if you left it unattended.
    It depends on your relative battery size and power usage.

    As for expected power, It will cut in at a somewhat lower wind speed.
    But the charging current will be approximately the same, maybe a little more.
    So it will charge at a little less power but probably not enough less to make a practical difference.
  • icarusicarus Posts: 5,070Super Moderators admin
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Would not a Midnight classic handle this?

    Tony
  • BB.BB. Posts: 24,551Super Moderators admin
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    If the wind turbine is worth the investment and capable of higher RPM/Voltages--The Midnite Classic + Clipper system that Tony mentioned has the ability to (roughly) double the kWH harvest from your turbine (using MPPT vs just "hardwiring" to the battery bank). But it is not cheap--so the "extra power" should somewhat justify the costs of the system before spending the cash.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    ok you are charging 32v (sorry meant 24v) batteries and do most likely have a primitive regulator, but the guys are right that a classic and clipper may work out good for you. contact the guys at midnite solar for better specifics.

    i'm curious as to the power rating on that turbine if you know it?
  • weedtreehuggerweedtreehugger Posts: 8Registered Users
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?
    niel wrote: »
    ok you are charging 32v batteries and do most likely have a primitive regulator, but the guys are right that a classic and clipper may work out good for you. contact the guys at midnite solar for better specifics.

    i'm curious as to the power rating on that turbine if you know it?

    Turbine is 1200 watts, probably @25mph. I had a control panel that I think had one of those clicker type regulators they used to use cars, but it got lost in the shuffle. A Classic w/mppt would be wonderful, but not sure I can afford one.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?
    Hi, I'm new to this forum, but not to wind power. In the '80's I rebuilt & put up a Wincharger 32volt single blade & ran it for a couple years ,until it vibrated off the tower. I want to try again withe same generator, and combine w/ solar. Can I charge a 24volt bat bank w/ my 32volt machine?

    You have a WinCharger Giant with the 11' prop and 1:6 geared generator. That will NOT work with a Classic controller because it is wound field with a self-exciting shunt generator and will run at way too high of voltage and burn the field out. It should work fine on 24V because the old 32V telco banks used to run in the high 20's when they were discharged.

    The field in the generator is excited by the generator's output. So if the output is "clamped" lower than 32V the field current will also be lower than normal. However, those generators built field faster than needed, so if it tends to stall the rotor you'll have to put a small shunt resistor on the field to lower the field current a bit.

    Where you at? I got a WinCharger Airline Deluxe here - complete with the Zenith tube radio that came with it new. And it all still works. Mine is a Model 611 - built in 1929. A few years ago on eBay there was some 32V kitchen appliances that used to be sold for the farm 32V systems back in the late 20's and early 30's. There was a mixer with the beaters, an iron and a toaster. I bid on it but the stuff went for over $3,000. It's all collectors items today.
    --
    Chris
  • icarusicarus Posts: 5,070Super Moderators admin
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Completly off topic, but, how does a single blade prop not throw itself to pieces? Seems line a strange idea, or am I missing something?

    Tony
  • icarusicarus Posts: 5,070Super Moderators admin
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    I answered my own question,, it looks like a large, single prop (like a conventional airplane prop) which I would describe as a two bladed prop.

    T



    http://www.windcharger.org/Wind_Charger/Wincharger.html
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    It's a two-blade prop with a drag-type governor. The airfoils were GOE-222. On the later 14 foot WinChargers they went to a four-blade prop made of aluminum. Two blades were lift blades and two were drag for speed control.

    If you've never heard the air brakes come on on a Wincharger it will make you jump. They run VERY fast and when the brakes come on it sounds like a machine gun firing.
    --
    Chris
  • weedtreehuggerweedtreehugger Posts: 8Registered Users
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Right now I live in Duluth, am in the process of buying a farm outside of Mahtowa, MN, where I want to install the wind plant. The propeller I had was actually one piece of wood but two blades. I bought a home made 3 bladed hub that feathers in high wind, that I plan to use. Good info about the classic and field coils. So do you think it would be okay to run this in tandem with a 24 volt solar panel with a simple charge controller maybe?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    You have a WinCharger Giant with the 11' prop and 1:6 geared generator. That will NOT work with a Classic controller because it is wound field with a self-exciting shunt generator and will run at way too high of voltage and burn the field out. It should work fine on 24V because the old 32V telco banks used to run in the high 20's when they were discharged. I won't be able to bring the generator in from the field until spring (rotator cuff surgery, and snow, and slow closing on my farm). I'm going crazy sitting here not being able to do anythng but recover from surgery. so I'm trying to get my ducks in a row for when spring comes.
    David J

    The field in the generator is excited by the generator's output. So if the output is "clamped" lower than 32V the field current will also be lower than normal. However, those generators built field faster than needed, so if it tends to stall the rotor you'll have to put a small shunt resistor on the field to lower the field current a bit.

    Where you at? I got a WinCharger Airline Deluxe here - complete with the Zenith tube radio that came with it new. And it all still works. Mine is a Model 611 - built in 1929. A few years ago on eBay there was some 32V kitchen appliances that used to be sold for the farm 32V systems back in the late 20's and early 30's. There was a mixer with the beaters, an iron and a toaster. I bid on it but the stuff went for over $3,000. It's all collectors items today.
    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Posts: 24,551Super Moderators admin
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Actually single bladed propellers for aircraft are not unheard of...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-blade_propeller

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • weedtreehuggerweedtreehugger Posts: 8Registered Users
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    D@#$%!^! Wish I hadn't lost my 32v motor inverter, and my 32 1/2hp motor. I do have a 32 volt Delco(?) kerosene powered back up generator. It would be great to have on of those refigerators.
    I also have a 6volt Wincharger radio charger with stubb tower and paddle brake and control panel. If I can find it that is.
    Never had it up, have to make a blade for it. Anybody have a templet for a 6' long double blade? David J
    Right now I live in Duluth, am in the process of buying a farm outside of Mahtowa, MN, where I want to install the wind plant. The propeller I had was actually one piece of wood but two blades. I bought a home made 3 bladed hub that feathers in high wind, that I plan to use. Good info about the classic and field coils. So do you think it would be okay to run this in tandem with a 24 volt solar panel with a simple charge controller maybe?
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?
    Right now I live in Duluth, am in the process of buying a farm outside of Mahtowa, MN, where I want to install the wind plant. The propeller I had was actually one piece of wood but two blades. I bought a home made 3 bladed hub that feathers in high wind, that I plan to use. Good info about the classic and field coils. So do you think it would be okay to run this in tandem with a 24 volt solar panel with a simple charge controller maybe?

    Oh yeah, it will work fine with solar power. I got some 10, 12 and 16 foot blades for those old Winchargers here - the 16 footer is in good shape but the leading edges on the 10 and 12 foot need repair:

    Attachment not found.

    --
    Chris
  • weedtreehuggerweedtreehugger Posts: 8Registered Users
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Hmm. Is the 10' for sale? I wonder if I could cut it in half and make a third copy and use them on my modified hub.? What do you thing?
    David J
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Oh yeah, it will work fine with solar power. I got some 10, 12 and 16 foot blades for those old Winchargers here - the 16 footer is in good shape but the leading edges on the 10 and 12 foot need repair:

    Attachment not found.

    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?
    Hmm. Is the 10' for sale? I wonder if I could cut it in half and make a third copy and use them on my modified hub.? What do you thing?

    No. They have to be weight matched and built as a set. If you need a set of blades contact me offline. I carve blades here and I also know where you can get GOE222 WinCharger blades that come in a three-blade set. And I'm not that far away from you. This is a set of three Wincharger GOE222 blades:

    Attachment not found.

    Attachment not found.

    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Actually, I went and looked in my shop to see what I got, and I got all kinds of blades.

    I got a set of three WinCharger GOE222's - these are 5' 8" long so they'd be about 12 foot diameter on a variable pitch hub:

    Attachment not found.

    And I got three sets of glass blades - these are 10.6 foot diameter - probably about 11' on a variable pitch hub:

    Attachment not found.

    This is one of the glass blades alongside the GOE222's - you can see they're a bit shorter:

    Attachment not found.

    I have to warn you, though - those WinCharger blades do not work all that well on a variable pitch hub. They're a very high-lift profile and refuse to stall even at 20 degrees angle of attack. Unless your variable pitch hub can turn the blades 30 degrees they'll just keep right on pulling and won't give up. The glass blades I got are S809's and those stall really easy by feathering them 15-20 degrees. I would not use GOE222's on a variable pitch hub because in thunderstorm winds your generator probably wouldn't handle them.
    --
    Chris
  • WisJimWisJim Posts: 59Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    I have used, and friends have also, old 32 volt Winchargers with a 24 volt dc system. I personally used an anti-motoring diode and fuse and ammeter as my controls for the wincharger, and used a diversion load feeding a heating element as a battery charge controller. That way the Wincharger had maximum electrical load on it at all times it was generating. Still have a 750 watt "Little Giant" Wincharger (10 ft blade) and generators, blades, and air brake governors of some other models up in the shed. I've been using a Jacobs 32 volt 2500 watt 1940s vintage machine since 1977 and it is much more reliable than the Winchargers. Still have a few 32 volt motors that I no longer use because I have gone to a whole house inverter.

    Jim, in Western Wisconsin
  • weedtreehuggerweedtreehugger Posts: 8Registered Users
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?
    WisJim wrote: »
    I have used, and friends have also, old 32 volt Winchargers with a 24 volt dc system. I personally used an anti-motoring diode and fuse and ammeter as my controls for the wincharger, and used a diversion load feeding a heating element as a battery charge controller. That way the Wincharger had maximum electrical load on it at all times it was generating. Still have a 750 watt "Little Giant" Wincharger (10 ft blade) and generators, blades, and air brake governors of some other models up in the shed. I've been using a Jacobs 32 volt 2500 watt 1940s vintage machine since 1977 and it is much more reliable than the Winchargers. Still have a few 32 volt motors that I no longer use because I have gone to a whole house inverter.

    Jim, in Western Wisconsin

    Jim, sounds like I would like to meet you and pick your brains about old windmills. I am still recovering from shoulder surgery, and on the 27th I am closing on an old farmstead in Cromwell, MN. My Windcharger Giant has a broken casting where the pole slides into the slip rings. When spring comes I am going to retrieve it from where it fell and see if it can be welded. If possible I might put it up and another new one too. Thanks. for your post.
    And thanks to everyone else who has posted too.
    David J
  • CDN_VTCDN_VT Posts: 489Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    David J
    Stumbled on this 4 U :
    http://www.kansaswindpower.net/used_wind_generators.htm

    Parts ?

    VT
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