Outback or Morningstar which one?

adas

Aloha, I am noticing a large price difference between a morningstar 60A 12/24/48 and MX60. Both seem to be the same specs? Does the Morningstar convert the excess voltage to amperage as the Outback does through the MPPT output? thanks
Frank

crewzer

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

Frank,

The Morningstar TriStar controller is a quite good and very versatile PWM controller. Nominal PV array voltage and moninal battery bank voltage must be the same. It offers neither the DC-DC step-down feature nor the MPPT feature offered by the "big" MPPT controllers (Apollo, OutBack, Xantrex). It does not convert "excess" voltage into additional charging current.

HTH,
Jim / crewzer

System2

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

I've used both the Morningstar TS-60 and now have the MX-60. For my purposes, the MX is 10 times the controller. The TS now sits among a lot of other things in the corner of the shed - - collecting dust. One thing I really disliked about the TS was that it transitioned to float based on a % of bulk current - - something like that anyway and as a result, trying to run a fridge or other loads, the current being delivered by the TS would not drop far enough to trigger float. In 2 years I think I saw it in float only 2 or 3 times. The MX on the other hand, uses voltage and time to trigger float, which works really well. The other thing of course is the MPPT with the MX. Great in winter especially.
Not to mention all the user adjustable features on the MX.
Cheers
Wayne

adas

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

Aloha, thanks.... been reading the MPPT purpose and looks like the MX60s are the best for my use too. I have 2 mx 60's for the office and may need another 3 to power my shop that I am converting to ~4000w panels and only using my 5kw diesel genny as a backup.

frank

SolarJohn

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

adas wrote: »

Aloha, I am noticing a large price difference between a morningstar 60A 12/24/48 and MX60. Both seem to be the same specs? Does the Morningstar convert the excess voltage to amperage as the Outback does through the MPPT output? thanks
Frank

In addition to the information others have provided, here are a few more things to consider:

The TS-60 is a PWM controller, while the MX-60 is a MPPT controller. I'm not sure which is best for your application, but you'll pay a lot more for the MPPT controller.

The TriStar has a 5 year warranty, while the MX-60 is warrated for only 2 years. I understand that the fan in the MX-60 has a tendency to fail. The MX-60 uses more power for it's own operation than the TS-60 does. I like the TS-60 for my small off-grid system, but I might use an MX-60 if my system were larger.

I've added the Morinigstar "Relay Driver" to my system to extend it's capabilities. If you go with the MX-60, you may need to add the "Hub" and the "Mate" to get the functionality you want, making the MX-60 a much more expensive choice than the TS-60.

John

nigtomdaw

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

Or u can go for a Xantrex ;)XW60 with a much simpler inerface and a no brainer set up;) + you get a battery temp sensor included not an optional extra !!! no need to buy a temp sensor 5 year warranty is standard and it works out the box .......try it

crewzer

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

I've added the Morinigstar "Relay Driver" to my system to extend it's capabilities. If you go with the MX-60, you may need to add the "Hub" and the "Mate" to get the functionality you want, making the MX-60 a much more expensive choice than the TS-60.

SJ,

I disagree with this statement. For one thing, the MRD isn’t free, so, while it increases the TS' functionality, it also increases its cost.

OutBack’s Mate and the Hub actually add very little functionality to the MX. The Mate can be a remote display, and it can remotely trigger the MX’ AUX function, but that’s about it. They’re probably not worth the expense without an OutBack inverter in the system. Separately, a PC and third party software can be connected to the Mate to monitor MX performance.

There’s no doubt that the MPPT controllers (Apollo, OutBack, Xantrex) cost more than a Tristar. A Xantrex XW, including a built-in display and RTS, costs $519 from NAWS. A Morningstar TriStar-60 with the optional display and RTS costs ~$315, or ~$200 less. From the perspective of just the controller, the TriStar is indeed “less expensive”.

However, from a total system cost perspective, that savings can easily lead to higher costs elsewhere. The TS-60's lack of a DC-DC step-down feature may mean requiring heavier and more expensive wire from the array to the controller, and its lack of MPPT -- even allowing for the controller’s internal loss -- means a larger and most costly array is required -- everything else being equal -- once a TS-60’s array size is greater than ~400 W.

From another perspective, the TR-60 PWM controller can leave behind -- waste? -- a lot of energy, especially in the winter when an array is cold and the available array voltage is high

The TS-60 is a very good, versatile, and reliable PWM controller. But, in terms of cost of energy harvested (Wh/day), it’s actually the more expensive choice once an array size exceeds ~500 W STC or so.

Here’s a useful example of the ~500 W “crossover” point”, using current prices from NAWS:

System #1, PWM Controller, 540 W STC

One TS-60 w/ display and RTS: $315
Four Kyocera KD135’s: $2654
Total: $2969

System #2, MPPT Controller, 510 W STC

One Xantrex XW: $519
Three Mitsubishi 170 W modules: $2284
Total: $2803

System #2 will cost ~$166 less just for the parts identified, but, due to its MPPT feature, be able to deliver at least as much power.


Regards,
Jim / crewzer

SolarJohn

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

Which is the best charge controller for you? I guess it depends on:

1. The size of your system, and how you want to wire it.
2. How much value you place on MPPT over PWM.
3. How much importance you place on the power consumption of the controller.
4. What you want from your system. (Such as monitoring, automation, remote control, and data logging).
5. How much value you place on the warranty.
6. How much money you're willing to spend.

John

adas

Outback which MMPT?

Aloha, I am up on mmpt after reading lots here today. Question: Does the MX-60 use Dynamic MMP tracking for units manufactured after last October 2007??
I read it somewhere here.

Frank

blwncrewchief

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

Just another consideration is on a system that size you should also look into the new Outback FlexMax80. They are new and should be available by now:roll:, have been released for about a month or so but been kinda hard to get. I have one and it is performing great. You could get away with only 2 FM80 instead of 3 MX60 for 4kw at 24v. They are only about $100 more than the MX60's so 2 FM80's would be about $300 cheaper than 3 MX60's

Info:

The FLEXmax 80 is the latest innovation in Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) charge controllers from OutBack Power Systems. The FLEXmax 80’s innovative MPPT algorithm is both continuous and active, increasing your renewable energy yield up to 30%. Thanks to enhanced cooling, the FLEXmax 80 can operate at its full 80 amp maximum current rating in ambient temperatures as high as 104°F (40°C).

12, 24, 36, 48, or 60 VDC (Single model - selectable via field programming at start-up). Maximum Output Current 80 amps @ 104º F (40ºC) with adjustable current limit.

Maximum Solar Array: 12 VDC systems 1250 Watts / 24 VDC systems 2500 Watts / 48 VDC systems 5000 Watts / 60 VDC Systems 7500 Watts

Solar Guppy

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

Or the Xantrex XW60-150 which is a full 60 amps to 45C and has NO FANS ... for your tropical climate a real plus as fans suck in everything , not just air

The XW is true dynamic mppt that been around more than a few months in the field :roll:

crewzer

Re: Outback or Morningstar which one?

Question: Does the MX-60 use Dynamic MMP tracking for units manufactured after last October 2007? I read it somewhere here.

No.

The legacy MX60 does not include dynamic / active MPPT. It's still uses the periodic "sweep and sleep" MPPT algorithm. The new FLEXmax 80 and the XW include dynamic / active MPPT.

You may find this previous discussion to be helpful: http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=1470

HTH,
Jim / crewzer