How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

MPaulHolmes

Hello, I'm moving to Maricopa, AZ in a few months, and really want to go solar down there. We'll be a few miles outside of town with no HOA. I'm looking to do as much of my own installation as possible to keep costs down. I believe that the Electric Utility down there in Maricopa wants to know who the contractor was that installed everything before they allow a grid-tie system to go online. Cost is my biggest concern. I just can't afford to pay someone a ton of money for a "turn-key" solution. I would really like to do as much as legally possible, and then if necessary, get a professional to install the Sunny Boy. How much can I legally do? What would be a fair price for a sunny boy installation assuming the panels were installed? I don't want to get hustled.

Cariboocoot

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

In this case you're going to have to find a licensed electrical contractor in the area who will work with you. Technically you can do it all, but a licensed electrician is going to have to 'sign off' on your work. That's the guy the utility wants the name of. Some contractors are not going to be willing to do it this way, as there are always safety concerns but mainly because it eats into the profits. Your utility may allow "self installed" with an inspection by the AHJ or they may not.

There's some guys on here from AZ who will have a better understanding of the local practice.

solar_dave

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

Talk to Dodge Electric, I know in my city the permitting agency wanted both a structural engineering drawing and an Electrical engineering drawing, by that is my permitting locale. YMMV

While I don't think Dodge is a solar installer per say, perhaps they will help you get what you need accomplished. They have been very reasonable with the work I had them do, some of it on my solar system.

Yes you need an interconnect agreement, but APS only wanted to know really if the connection was permitted. They do show up for the commissioning and check the stickers attached by the inspector and the labeling. They then attach locks to the disconnects and the backfeed meter.

PM me and I will give you Dodge's details and a contact.

rollandelliott

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

just be aware that most sunny boy's require string lengths of 11 to 14 panels in a row for a 30v panel.

If you get some clearance panels, at 19V or some other wierd voltage that might mean 16 to 20 panels in a row!!!!

that is a good 30 to 45 feet long row of panels. JUST to TURN the stupid inverter on.

too many newbies think they can just toss up as many panels as they can afford on the roof.

you can't. they have to be a specific number per string or you are just wasting your $$$$

MPaulHolmes

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

I actually do power electronics for part of my living (the other 50% is teaching math at a college). That's one reason it's so frustrating to have to pay someone to do everything.

inetdog

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

MPaulHolmes wrote: »

I actually do power electronics for part of my living (the other 50% is teaching math at a college). That's one reason it's so frustrating to have to pay someone to do everything.

Even more frustrating is what some forum members have experienced:
They get a grid-tied system installed by a firm that is no longer in business, and they want to expand the system.
No other contractors or independent electricians will touch it, since they would have to take responsibility for all of the previous work. Or at least they think they would have to.

solarix

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

Your utility, APS requires the system to be installed under a permit in order to interconnect with them - which means a license is needed to get the permit. Next year APS is upping the ante to requiring only "qualified contractors" for installs that receive APS rebate funds. I don't generally do jobs (although we have) in Maricopa county as we're up north, but if you want to do all the boots on the ground and permit legwork - I'll help you out as long as I get to inspect it prior to the Maricopa inspection. Phoenix inspectors are getting pretty picky, so ask lots of questions first. Send me a PM.

Organic Farmer

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

In my state, there is a state.gov list of 'certified' electricians who can do the work.

The utility company engineers must review and approve the system design [including copies of each component's spec sheets]. Which you pay a separate fee for.

If you have one then your town code inspector must approve the work.

Then the utility company's QA inspectors must approve the work. Which you pay a separate fee for.

You might get away with building the mounts, but as others have said this would cut into the electrician's profit line. Depending on how many hours it takes for the electrician to get to your site, they might not be willing to take their profits.

jaggedben

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

I think most electricians would be happy to just do the electrical part of an installation, and handle the permit and inspection, if you install the array and supply the inverter and a set of plans. At least I think they should be happy to do so. (Some electricians may be scared of solar 'cause they just don't know anything about it yet. And those guys will change if they know what's good for them, and come to regard it as just another part of their work.)

I actually see this as a good model for both electricians and competent DIY solar people going forward. Installing arrays and doing electrical work are not exactly complementary businesses. I think it's fine to divide up the expertise.

solar_dave

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

solarix wrote: »

Your utility, APS requires the system to be installed under a permit in order to interconnect with them - which means a license is needed to get the permit. Next year APS is upping the ante to requiring only "qualified contractors" for installs that receive APS rebate funds. I don't generally do jobs (although we have) in Maricopa county as we're up north, but if you want to do all the boots on the ground and permit legwork - I'll help you out as long as I get to inspect it prior to the Maricopa inspection. Phoenix inspectors are getting pretty picky, so ask lots of questions first. Send me a PM.

APS rebate funds are down to $0.20 a watt last I checked BTW

rollandelliott

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

In Charlotte, NC, a home owner can take their own electrical exam and if they pass can pull their own electrical permit.

Just across the boarder in South Carolina, as long as you own the home you can do your own electrical install.

There is so much red tape in getting a solar system installed now a days it is getting ridiculous. Certified Installers?!?

Solar will never be widespread if these kind of road blocks hinder installations.

I remember a web site that promoted a national solar permitting processing that was simple and streamlined. That is what we need.

niel

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

rollandelliott wrote: »

In Charlotte, NC, a home owner can take their own electrical exam and if they pass can pull their own electrical permit.

Just across the boarder in South Carolina, as long as you own the home you can do your own electrical install.

There is so much red tape in getting a solar system installed now a days it is getting ridiculous. Certified Installers?!?

Solar will never be widespread if these kind of road blocks hinder installations.

I remember a web site that promoted a national solar permitting processing that was simple and streamlined. That is what we need.

most likely won't ever happen as there's too many politicians in the way each trying to profit from it.

jaggedben

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

It would actually be helpful in some respects for the incentive programs to go away. They are increasingly not worth the red tape. About a third of the red-tape my company deals with is to get the California Solar Initiative rebates. But they are so small now that if we make one mistake that requires us to go out and re-visit a site, we've basically blown the rebate, or at least a good amount of it.

Here's hoping that solar can reach true grid-parity and that these incentive programs will not be necessary, and won't be putting extra burdens on getting installs done.

Don't get me wrong, the incentives are still really helpful financially in many areas, but it would be more helpful if they weren't needed. And some of the extra requirements attached to them are not necessary.

kell490

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

I know this is kind of old post but I have read though APS requirements for non incentive connection it does not say you need a licensed contractor to dig into your pockets to pay for his lifted 2013 powerstroke F-350. According to this link http://www.aps.com/main/green/choice/choice_169.html it says you have to get the design approved by them and by the city plus an inspection which you would need anyway.

solar_dave

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

kell490 wrote: »

I know this is kind of old post but I have read though APS requirements for non incentive connection it does not say you need a licensed contractor to dig into your pockets to pay for his lifted 2013 powerstroke F-350. According to this link http://www.aps.com/main/green/choice/choice_169.html it says you have to get the design approved by them and by the city plus an inspection which you would need anyway.

It would appear that APS has come into the new century with their requirements. Glad to see line side taps are now supported, that could have saved me a pile of cash in 2010. If you are in Phoenix your AHJ may be easier than mine in Glendale, they were really tough on the electrical contractor. I say give the locals a permitting try. Glendale wanted an electrical engineer to stamp the drawings but that was a few years ago. I see some nice drawings on the APS site as well, that should give you a good starting point. Don't forget to look at the APS inspection checklist on that page.

tallgirl

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

solar_dave wrote: »

APS rebate funds are down to $0.20 a watt last I checked BTW

Where I live, we get $0.00 per watt in rebates.

Thankfully I work for an ACPV manufacturer. I have boxes of microinverters at the office just waiting to be attached to panels

mtdoc

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

In WA state, a property owner can pull their own permit and do any electrical install they wish - no qualifying exam needed.

Their "Inspire" program pays an incentive for solar production - extra if the inverter is made in WA and even more if the PV panels are.

tallgirl

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

mtdoc wrote: »

In WA state, a property owner can pull their own permit and do any electrical install they wish - no qualifying exam needed.

The same is true, so far as I can tell, in Texas. However, a grid-connected system will require an inspection and it takes a lot of experience to pass one of those things. There may also be insurance issues -- make sure your homeowners insurance will accept an inspection as proof that the system was installed properly. I don't want to slag on string inverters, but the risk of roof-top fires from string inverters are very real.

ggunn

Re: How much can I legally do to install my own grid tie system?

tallgirl wrote: »

I don't want to slag on string inverters, but the risk of roof-top fires from string inverters are very real.

Spoken like a true employee of a microinverter company.