U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

Eric L
Eric L Solar Expert Posts: 262 ✭✭
I didn't think they'd do it, but they did:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/21/business/energy-environment/us-to-place-tariffs-on-chinese-solar-panels.html

Smaller tariffs than expected though. Be interesting to see what this does to the prices and market. My guess: relatively little.

Comments

  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels
    Eric L wrote: »
    I didn't think they'd do it, but they did:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/21/business/energy-environment/us-to-place-tariffs-on-chinese-solar-panels.html

    Smaller tariffs than expected though. Be interesting to see what this does to the prices and market. My guess: relatively little.

    My hope: you are correct.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    From what I read this is just phase 1
     
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    i guess they (our government) decided to try and get the $ back many ran with.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels
    niel wrote: »
    i guess they (our government) decided to try and get the $ back many ran with.
    If that is what is happening they are looking in the wrong place.
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels
    ggunn wrote: »
    If that is what is happening they are looking in the wrong place.

    i agree with you, but since when does any government care about that just as long as they are getting it, right? i can't see them running into another country and seizing assets or $ and if here in this country they've followed procedures, be it for the grants or bankruptcy, properly and legally then they've no choice but to get it from us in one form or another. we pay for governmental mistakes.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels
    niel wrote: »
    i agree with you, but since when does any government care about that just as long as they are getting it, right? i can't see them running into another country and seizing assets or $ and if here in this country they've followed procedures, be it for the grants or bankruptcy, properly and legally then they've no choice but to get it from us in one form or another. we pay for governmental mistakes.

    How about if they went after all the money that went into the pockets of the folks who were gaming the system in the years (decades) leading up to the economic unpleasantness that started in 2007?
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    you might need to suggest that to them and not me as i can't do anything about it. wish i could enact laws and such as things would be different.
  • jagec
    jagec Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels
    ggunn wrote: »
    How about if they went after all the money that went into the pockets of the folks who were gaming the system in the years (decades) leading up to the economic unpleasantness that started in 2007?

    Because those are the people whose lobbyists WRITE the laws.
  • jkhawaii
    jkhawaii Solar Expert Posts: 30
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    it seems to me that China is a war with us, just not is the conventional sense of the word.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels
    jagec wrote: »
    Because those are the people whose lobbyists WRITE the laws.
    And therein lies the problem and the reason why the middle class is hopelessly screwed.

    OK, OK, I'll stop. :D
  • vcallaway
    vcallaway Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    From what I've gleaned so far this is a move to boost one company. That is Solarworld. It is no surprise that Gordon Binser with close ties to Obama will be the sole beneficiary if this passes.

    The claim that jobs are bing lost to China does not hold water. This move will wind up costing MORE jobs in the U.S.
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    i ask somebody to come forth with a better figure of how much the government has supposedly put towards renewables and not just this year, but for all years too. my reason being that with all of the billions of $ going to "bolster" companies that i would wager that nearly every house would already have solar to one degree or another if it was used to purchase systems instead. this i guess is reverse reagan economics for as if the people buy it it bolsters the companies. if people are buying then there's no need to bail out a company. the real problem is there are too many select hands in the pot that do not benefit the actual industry.
  • nsaspook
    nsaspook Solar Expert Posts: 396 ✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    It will cost more jobs on the whole to prop up US solar production but if companies like Solarworld fold the the local tech infrastructure that supports advanced materials manufacturing near the plant will also start to vanish. The semiconductor tech infrastructure of process tools and chemicals is currently something China can't complete on and is a area we still dominate with jobs that pay 2x to 3x what most replacement jobs from cheaper panels will create.

    Fighting China with a tariff won't work in the long run because IMO the current US economic mess just can't support a trade war with China. They have too many chips for us to win unless we just upend the table. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LVzFAOAdWQ
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    It was not long ago - a couple years - that the US decided a similar fate for Chinese made tires, and imposed extra tariffs. That move was heavily pushed by the unions.

    But what happened was that no US jobs were gained, tire production moved to even cheaper countries like Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam and Malaysia, and tire prices in the US went up. According to the Wall Street Journal and a few others, the only real effect was to put some smaller tire dealers out of business, and increase the price of tires about 15%.

    However, the tariffs on Chinese panels are pretty small compared to what they did with tires - around 2.7% vs 55%, so I expect the net effect to be just about zero.

    Interesting to note that both Kyocera and Solar World make panels in the US, but Solar World panels are as much as 25% higher, so they must be doing something wrong.
  • Joe_B
    Joe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels

    Slightly off the original topic but the town I live in just instituted a tax on solar panels similar to an excize tax. Fortunately all existing installs are grandfathered but new installs get to pay up.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels
    Joe_B wrote: »
    Slightly off the original topic but the town I live in just instituted a tax on solar panels similar to an excize tax. Fortunately all existing installs are grandfathered but new installs get to pay up.
    How do they implement it? Do they tax per installed module? Purchased module? On overall installed system size? That's the opposite of a rebate system, isn't it?
  • Joe_B
    Joe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: U.S. to place tariffs on Chinese panels
    ggunn wrote: »
    How do they implement it? Do they tax per installed module? Purchased module? On overall installed system size? That's the opposite of a rebate system, isn't it?

    Yes, the board of selectmen decided that since the government rebat program offets the cost of a system to the user, the town should get their piece. when you apply for a permit, you come up on their radar. They tax you a percentage based on the size of the system. The real bummer is that it is an annual tax as long as the system is in service. Guess everyone gets "their piece" of the pie.

    ETA: They get $80 for a permit, $50 for an electrical inspection and $1 per $1000 of installed equipment annually. So if I were to install my system today I could expect an annual tax of about $20 as long as my system was in operation. This is for a private residential system, for a commercial system the annual fee jumps to $5 per $1000 per year.