"When the Lights Go Out"...

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Comments

  • Steven LakeSteven Lake Posts: 380Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...
    niel wrote: »
    steven,
    imho there's nothing wrong with something purely mechanical in nature as it is an option that does not need power to operate it and it also comes under the conservation heading too. many do forget that human power is a green energy source too. (forgive my green inference here as that is used loosely by many)
    HAHAHAHA! Absolutely! :D I've actually thought of building a bike powered battery charger. The problem is, it's too much work for not enough gain. :( On the bright side though, it would give me something to do if I was bored to death during a disaster. ;)
    i do agree that you are a prepper as you have thought of and worked out some options for you during a bad time. whether you've gone far enough and it works out the way you figured it at the time, who knows? i guess the classification of a prepper can be loosely applied to many as it does entail different things to different people. going by fema it must be at least 3 days, but others may feel it should be a longer time span to qualify as a prepper. it is almost like calling somebody green for putting in solar walkway lights in the same classification as somebody with a dedicated 400w solar setup and somebody running all on solar off grid. varying degrees, but still within definition until other terms or stipulations are encountered and accepted.
    Eh, I sorta disagree. Yes, I've put in place a disaster survival plan, but it's pretty close to the same plan as those who aren't planning. IE, wait till the SHTF, then go leech off someone else. So yeah, I could be called a prepper, but it's really not that great of a plan, honestly. Personally, I'd love to be 100% self reliant when it all goes down (if it goes down), but sadly, I can't. One thing I do plan to do however is unhook my home UPS should that happen, toss it in the truck, and carry it down to my uncles. All I'd need to do then is just find a way to recharge it and we'd have periodical power. :)
  • ThomasThomas Posts: 291Solar Expert
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    when the loghts go out , chill, and have a cup of coffee.(by candlelight)
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    steven,
    see what i mean as the definition can go very loosely and by your own definition of it you aren't a prepper. i guess your argument does indeed hold some merit because a criminal can plan for it too that when the time comes he would be the one to loot your place under that forced evacuation. what can i say?:confused::roll:

    thomas,
    are you going to brew that coffee by candlelight too?
  • Steven LakeSteven Lake Posts: 380Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    lol, good point. So I guess by some people's perspectives I'm a prepper, and by others I'm just a lousy leech. ;) :P
  • SteveKSteveK Posts: 277Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Steven Lake, So you you said a Leach or a Prepper. Combined = Lepper? LOL!

    I think you are doing real well with your plan. Question is: Are they OK if you don't make it there?

    Those teams that rendevous are sometimes fragile because of the logistical/statistical combination of members.
  • Steven LakeSteven Lake Posts: 380Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Well, the farm is pretty much self sustainable on its own at this point. All I'd be is a monkey with muscles. Well, ok, a bit more than that. But even so, everything's setup so that if TSHTF, one person could run and maintain everything if it came down to it. Right now it takes 4-6 people to do everything when the farm is running at 100% production capacity. So obviously in a survival situation there's no need for that much production, so one person could easily handle everything. The chores would be a ton easier with everyone there, but if not, they'll be fine. I was at least smart enough to make sure of that. ;)
  • ThomasThomas Posts: 291Solar Expert
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    No, I have had my fill of candle-light coffee, I now use Amerigas....brewing coffee with solar electricity,unless it is anew fangled coffee maker like the new refrigerators or something, will wreck batteries/inverter.
    Harbinger....prepper.Jahova,Jahova,Jahova!-monty python.google
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • SteveKSteveK Posts: 277Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    We too store more LP gas than we are supposed to have. We refuse to use it for simple things like cooking and lighting or heat. We prefer to save it for more complicated things like running the engines. We did convert the genset to LP.
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Posts: 842Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    "We too store more LP gas than we are supposed to have. We refuse to use it for simple things like cooking and lighting or heat. We prefer to save it for more complicated things like running the engines. We did convert the genset to LP. ."

    If you own the tanks then it's sensible to store more gas than you use in a year. I use propane for cooking and water heater (augmented by solar) and own the 100gal tank. There's no rental fee, the price of gas varies from year to year, but the $50+ yearly fee I don't miss. I had to go with owning the tank because the suppliers would up the rental fee when they saw how little gas I used (on the second calendar year on this fill, should make it to 2 years at least).

    I hated having to pay the company to store the product I bought from them in the first place:grr. Doesn't happen with fuel/furnace oil, does it?

    Ralph
  • TnAndyTnAndy Posts: 249Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...
    SteveK wrote: »
    We too store more LP gas than we are supposed to have.

    That a local code thing, Steve ?

    I have 500gal underground, and two 500 above ground tanks.....plus dozen or so 100lb bottles, and about that many 20lb bottles. I own them all. We used about 350-400gal/yr for cooking, water heating, and a small amount of space heating on a sun porch where my wife keeps her weeds...er, flowers, when she moves them in off the deck in the fall.
  • SteveKSteveK Posts: 277Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Yep it is a code thing. Not supposed to have any more than 40lbs on your residential property nor transport any more than 40lbs in MA. Makes it kind of hard getting the 100 pounders refilled but there is a guy that does. Have taken 2 at a time to him with no troubles. Problem is it's a bit tough storing these things out of sight too. Not a very big place here. I'd like to store more.

    No LP volume delivery unless you heat/cook with it. You can't get K1 delivered unless you heat with it. Can't get K1 at any gas pumps in the state either. No more residential kerosene heaters can be sold in this state. The Mr. Buddy LP heaters are illegal....the list goes on.

    These regs are what gets me. This is nanny state law in my opinion. The kicker is our street doesn't have LNG either.
  • TnAndyTnAndy Posts: 249Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Yeah, one of the reasons I went to owned tanks was to be able to buy from 1/2 dozen different propane suppliers.....amazing what they can do on price IF they have to compete.

    I guess your State would have a cow if you stored what I have here....and that doesn't include about 500 gallons of diesel, that much again of gasoline, and couple drums of K-1.
  • CDN_VTCDN_VT Posts: 491Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...
    SteveK wrote: »
    We too store more LP gas than we are supposed to have. We refuse to use it for simple things like cooking and lighting or heat. We prefer to save it for more complicated things like running the engines. We did convert the genset to LP.

    I was reading the "New Homeland Security" stuff that was sent to me.
    They now have limits on Fuel , Food storage or your considered a T word..
    7 days max.. And there trying to amended / the patriot act for searches on property's ..


    Open forum ..
    VT
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Posts: 842Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    "Yeah, one of the reasons I went to owned tanks was to be able to buy from 1/2 dozen different propane suppliers.....amazing what they can do on price IF they have to compete."

    Lucky you! Here, if you want to change propane suppliers, they have to check all your propane appliances (any that their gas is supplying), at your cost of $75 per hour or more.

    I haven't changed suppliers is 10 years because of that, plus my guys have about the best rate around. I calculated it out and the amount I'd save with a cheaper supplier would more than be eaten up by the "change of service" costs.

    Ralph
  • solar_davesolar_dave Posts: 2,277Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...
    CDN_VT wrote: »
    I was reading the "New Homeland Security" stuff that was sent to me.
    They now have limits on Fuel , Food storage or your considered a T word..
    7 days max.. And there trying to amended / the patriot act for searches on property's ..

    You have to be kidding, anyone with a deep freeze and pantry would be in violation.
  • solarvicsolarvic Posts: 954Solar Expert
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    sounds like they want you to die. They also want to take your guns away and then you cant shoot some food if you are desperate. When I was a kid my stepdad got laid off lot of the time. We lived on what we could raise and the government surplus food they gave out. Also ate whatever we could find on the farm. Ate lots of speed beef.and my mother tryed cooking other things. I remember eating a couple racoons, squirrels, rabbits. pheasants. At least we didn,t eat any possum or skunk. :Dsolarvic:D
  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 4,221Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...
    CDN_VT wrote: »
    They now have limits on Fuel , Food storage or your considered a T word..
    7 days max.. And there trying to amended / the patriot act for searches on property's ..


    Talk about 'control' ... right down to the gants a_ _!!

    I would be sent away for a few years, at that statement, and I don't consider us as pereppers, but we could make at least a month or more
     
     KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL29032 FW 2079/ 2073/ 2054 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,Omnicharge 3024,
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  • BB.BB. Posts: 25,139Super Moderators admin
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Ease up a bit folks... Keep the typing a bit on the more practical side of the issues.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ThomasThomas Posts: 291Solar Expert
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    I hope that Pheasants etc, you ate was not in the spring or summer, or they Will come and take you away!
    Homeland Security and the Patriot Act uses of state-ish ordinance discression on a national security application...
    Excerpts from future Doctral Thesisis on Political Theory Abused in the year 2112...for whomsoetheversurvivesit.
    Hmmmm, my new Stand alone chest freezer needs a greencard too.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • solarvicsolarvic Posts: 954Solar Expert
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    When you live in the country and have more than 100 acres you eat the wildlife any time of the year if you are hungry enough. In case you don,t know what speedbeef is. It is wild deer and I ate plenty of them also. :Dsolarvic:D
  • techntrektechntrek Posts: 1,357Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    If you didn't know about this site, you can see your area's average pricing. I have to fight my LPG supplier every single time they deliver - they usually try to charge me 2-3 times the area's average! Until I mention this site: http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_dpgal_w.htm
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...
    techntrek wrote: »
    If you didn't know about this site, you can see your area's average pricing. I have to fight my LPG supplier every single time they deliver - they usually try to charge me 2-3 times the area's average! Until I mention this site: http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_dpgal_w.htm

    that's quite a contrast between different states.
  • Steven LakeSteven Lake Posts: 380Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Have you guys considered adding geothermal to your list of off grid solutions? Friend of mine tipped me off to the idea not long ago, and according to what I've read, anyone can have geothermal. You just need to go deep enough to get it. I mean, they even have geothermal in Vegas. Sure, the well's 4000ft deep, but still, it's enough to boil water, which is all you need. I also found that there are several companies out there that design and install residential geothermal systems for a fair price. I'm investigating them right now, and so far it looks like $20k is the starting price for a system, and goes up the deeper the well gets. Plus, it's a 24/7/365 ultra-low-maintenance system. Just check it once a month, add some oil to the bearings periodically, and you're golden. So what do you guys think of the idea? I mean, $20k up to probably $50k for a geothermal system, installable anywhere in the US, isn't bad. Heck, I'm looking to spend at least that much on a solar setup. It'd definitely keep the lights on all the time, even in the worst situations.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 25,139Super Moderators admin
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Here is a good link on geothermal power (lots of links to various sources of information):

    http://serc.carleton.edu/research_education/yellowstone/geothermal.html

    No--geothermal is not low maintenance. It requires a lot from what little I have seen/read. Even simple thermal heating systems (hot water, heating of home) requires a lot of upkeep or they just fail from mineral fouling/corrosion.

    Any time you use steam/boiling water for power--The problems become quite complex and dangerous (steam explosions, etc.), CO2 and hydrogen sulfide gases (can kill plant/tree roots and people), small earthquakes, need fresh water injection, etc...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Steven LakeSteven Lake Posts: 380Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Interesting. The report I read and the things I've seen about the existing geothermal power plants used in the US said a different story. Apparently they use some kind of closed loop steam system that can run completely unattended and without maintenance for like 50 years before you had to do anything. Of course, that's the story I've heard, and since there's always two sides to every story, and completely opposing opinions on what is true, or believed to be true, either of us could be dead right, dead wrong, or somewhere in between. Since I was under the impression that geothermal power generation systems (not heating or hot water systems, but actual high temp steam generation) could run without human interaction for decades, I figured that the same would be true for home use.

    Meh, I'll probably have to research this a lot more to see if I really want to go this route. Currently it's more a passing curiosity than anything. (mostly because I'm broke at the moment) But if it does turn out to be a viable solution, then I might look into what it'd take to get and maintain one. If it doesn't look to be viable, oh well. But, if it is, I'll give you guys the skinny on everything I learn. :D
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    The problem is that water isn't water; it's water that inevitably has dissolved minerals in it. Which ones and at what concentration makes a difference in how long any water system (including closed-loop geo-thermal heat transfer) will last without maintenance. No doubt for a large-scale commercial system it is financially viable (or even prudent) to charge the loop with distilled water or ethylene glycol or such. On a home-sized system the expense may outweigh the benefit as a trade-off to service. Again, it depends on the quality of water used.

    Like solar, the viability of geo-thermal is highly site-specific. For instance in some places, that 4,000 foot deep well would just get you down to sea level: no significant temp advantage over going just 50' down because you won't be tapping that magma!

    There's lots of different types of geo-thermal. As with everything else, none of them are "one size fits all".
  • SteveKSteveK Posts: 277Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    We were quoted $20K for geo so we went with air source and saved a load of dough. Without the headaches of geo.
  • Steven LakeSteven Lake Posts: 380Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...
    There's lots of different types of geo-thermal. As with everything else, none of them are "one size fits all".
    Yeah, I think that's pretty much true of every system. Go with what works best for you.
    SteveK wrote: »
    We were quoted $20K for geo so we went with air source and saved a load of dough. Without the headaches of geo.
    Well, with the situation I'm in, my entire off grid system would be about $20k when finished. But since you only get about 4 good hours of sunlight on average here (even with a tracking system) during the summer, and about 3 during most winter days, geo-termal power and solar or solar/wind is kind of all the same price. Thus why it caught my interest. But I guess it's going to be more footwork for me to sort all of this out before moving on to the next stage. Of course, that assumes I can get the money to go any further than I already have. (*unintelligible rant about the economy*)
  • techntrektechntrek Posts: 1,357Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...
    SteveK wrote: »
    We were quoted $20K for geo so we went with air source and saved a load of dough. Without the headaches of geo.

    Make sure you aren't confusing "geothermal" with "ground sourced heat pump". Similar idea, big difference in costs, operational issues, and benefits.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • SteveKSteveK Posts: 277Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: "When the Lights Go Out"...

    Yes it was ground source. Geo just sounds cooler and we don't live in magma country..;>) Wish we did, well maybe not too with the winter we just had. We did just have winter didn't we?
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