Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

maverick06

All I have recently received a Generac IX 2000 inverter generator. It was received as a replacement for my honeywell 2000i which was very hard starting (20-40 pulls).


First impressions:
The Generac was much lighter than the honeywell (about 10lbs lighter) It also looks a little better in my opinion. The build quality is also nicer, the plastic is definitely a bit thicker.

I have done some initial break in runs at no load or very light load. My thoughts on these were, its spectacular! It starts right away and is definitely quieter than the honeywell. I have a dB meter.

Sound level:
These readings were taken in my back yard, both generators at the same location and orientation. Ambient noise level is about 50 dB. Readings were taken 1m away from the generator at level with it while they were unloaded. These comparisons are IRRELEVANT to other measurements as the surroundings and measurement distances are likely different. (values measured in dB A)

Honeywell HW2000i
non-efficiency
front - 77
left - 81
back - 83
right - 81

efficiency mode
front - 76
left - 78
back - 80
right - 78

Generac IX 2000
non-efficiency
front - 75
left - 80
back - 82
right - 81

efficiency mode
front - 73
left - 77
back - 79
right - 77

So the generac is much quieter! its very noticeably quieter!

BUT THERE IS TERRIBLE PERFORMANCE

Load testing:
So I now went to load testing. I used 2 different electric heaters, so there were no startup surge loads. One was a ceramic heater that pulled 750 watts and a oil filled electric radiator that had 3 settings, I used the settings for 790 watts and 1490 watts (approx).

The honeywell HW2000i was able to handle all of these loads. Even quick loading it from nothing to 1490watts it had no trouble. It was able to do this at both high and efficient settings. I was able to load it up to 1920 watts with no problem at all!

The Generac IX2000 was another story entirely. On high (not efficient) it should be able to work best. It handled 750 watts, the engine bogged down but was able to recover. Turning it on to 1490 the generator would surge all over the place. The generator would power it for a few second then the overload light would click on and it would lose power, then power would come back. It flickered on and off. It was terrible, voltage dropped down to about 90 volts at times, the HZ was solid at 60 the whole time. power didnt just go on and off, but would fade in and out. This is only 75% of the load and a resistance load at that! Even nursing the load on, slowly going from 750 to 1490 would not help at all. I let it sit for about 5 min as it surged back and forth never being able to power the heater for more than 20 or 30 seconds at a time.

Troubleshooting:
All internals of the generator that I can see are good. I removed the air filter to see if that restricted the engine, no effect. The gas is fresh 89 octane and is stabilized (I bought it last weekend). Tomorrow I will go and buy 93 octane to see if that helps, even though i didnt notice any knocking. I will also spray carb cleaner in the carb to see if that cleans out anything.

Generac Support:
My honeywell takes a very long time to start, at least 20-30 pulls, sometimes way longer. It is very hard to start. I called honeywell to get that looked at under warranty (honeywell has been bought by generac). I have the details of that generator posted in another thread. In short, it was very hard to start, generac said that was a problem and sent me this one as a replacement for the faulty honeywell.

I called generac to resolve this issue and the lady tried to troubleshoot it over the phone, "is the spark plug gap correct?" "I have had it running for 3 hours, I have no idea what spark plug you put in it" She was no help and said to take it into the service center. the service center is an hour and a half (or so) away, so to drop it off and pick it up, I am in the car 6 hours. Based on previous experience, the $100 service fee will not be reimbursed by generac. Also, looking at reviews of the generator on Lowes's website, it seems like this is pretty common. I don't know if I will bother taking it to a service center... its a lot of money and effort with questionable payoff.

Conclusions:
Bother generators are junk and I would not recommend either.

The honeywell is miserably hard and very unreliable to start. However, once running, it runs great! Just dont be in a hurry to get it going, like I was when my basement was flooding and power was out...

The Generac starts super! its also pretty quiet. But it cant produce enough power to run even 75% load. If you consider it to be a 800w generator, its great, except its huge, heavy, and overpriced.

Honestly I dont know what i will be doing at this point. I hope the carb cleaner cleans out some residue from construction, but thats unlikely. the honeywell will likely be sold as it is still an honest 2000w generator, just very hard to start. I cant sell the generac in good conscience though. I also will not spend the money on a honda, thats just overpriced....

Videos:
Here is the first part showing what is happening to the load inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChF2vEzppxs

Here is the second part showing the generator outside, still trying to run the same load. (for what its worth, I sound a bit funny in the video as the camera is trying to record me while filter out the engine noise I guess).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=J1KbqCf-9ro

I will keep you updated.

Rick

spanel

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

maverick06 wrote: »

I also will not spend the money on a honda, thats just overpriced....

Videos:
Here is the first part showing what is happening to the load inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChF2vEzppxs

Here is the second part showing the generator outside, still trying to run the same load. (for what its worth, I sound a bit funny in the video as the camera is trying to record me while filter out the engine noise I guess).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=J1KbqCf-9ro

I will keep you updated.

Rick

You know the old saying.. you get what you pay for.. Now I didnt buy a honda either, I sprung for a yamaha inverter. Probably not much cheaper though...It runs anything you throw at it and converted it to propane.

Chris

Cariboocoot

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

Have I mentioned my "overpriced" Honda EU1000i lately? The one with 6,000+ hours on it? The one that sat for the past two years unused? The one I put gas in and pulled the rope 6 times and it started?

The day your bargain generators match that quality I'll say Honda is overpriced. But since a new EU2000i lists for $1079 in the States I don't think I'll be saying it anytime soon. :roll:

spanel

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

And a brand new Yamaha Generator EF2000iS is around $1000 as well.... with your $100 service fee.. your only about $300 away from owning a genny that you'll be FAR happier with.


Chris

techntrek

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

Does your Honeywell have a push-pump primer? Maybe adding one would help with the starting issue.

maverick06

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

I got the generator running this morning and probably spent 15 min slowly spraying carb cleaner into the engine, a few squirts here and there. lo and behold the engine can now take resistive loads up to about 1800 watts (max i have right now). However, with the eco mode on, it still surges and cant handle even 700 watts...

So maybe we are getting somewhere, i let it sit loaded at 1490 watts for a hour or so today in non-eco mode, it seemed happy.

Initial conclusion:
Maybe the carb was gummed up with some new manufacture grease... carb cleaner got rid of it. I also assume that the eco mode is just junk and only good if you are running very light loads.

techntrek

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

What about the primer bulb?

SCharles

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

Glad to hear you are making progress.

But as far as Hondas go, I've had my 3500 w SX since some time in the mid to late 80s, used a lot. It is still going strong, I have put one spark plug in it, changed the oil regularly. That is around a quarter century of reliable starting and use.

It was a lot of money back then, more than competitors. I had had a bad experience with another brand and had had great experience with some Honda motorcycles. So, I gritted my teeth and paid the extra for a Honda.

Best decision I made, at least for generators.

maverick06

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

I was told that the honda readings are done at 3m, likely in an anacoheic chamber... I dont have the second half, but I can measure to 3m, the first readings were at 1m.

Took readings in my backyard. All readings taken at 3m in dBA

High mode:
Front - 67
Left - 71
Right - 72
Back - 72

eco mode
front - 65
left - 67
right - 68
back - 69

On high mode, it is taking resistance loads pretty well. still surges back and forth a few times when taking the load. Unloaded it still hunts all over the place. In eco mode I wouldnt want it to try to work with anything more than somewhere around 700 watts. If i was only running the blower on my insert or other equally light loads, i would leave it in eco, anything else, refrigerator, freezer, sump pump, etc, I would only run it in high mode. Thats fine, i didnt get the inverter generator for fuel consumption but for quality of the power it outputs.

It does start up on the first pull, really fast and easy to start.

Still not happy with it. It might meet my needs but i am not happy. If the generator didnt hunt all over, and could take the load quicker, and if eco worked, it would be nice. My needs are freezer/refrig/sump pump/fireplace/lights/and a few other minor thing during power outages. In reality, thats probably 20 hours a year. maybe a bit more. For that ultralight use, this will probably meet the needs I have. Tomorrow I will test the chest freezer and sump pump. we will see.

BB.

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

For high starting surge loads--I believe even the Honda eu family genset need to have ECO MODE off...

But, to a degree, it depends. Some load surges will kill the AC output, the Honda will increase speed, and then the loads will start.

Other loads get into a cycle with the Honda ECO throttle/engine speed--and the load surge/engine speed never match up and the loads never start.

-Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

Bill;

From my experience this is one of those "yes, and then again no"/"it all depends" situations.
How much of a surge the load demands is certainly one factor. But also is how much of a load the generator is already supplying. For instance if the high load comes on when nothing else is running (generator at "idle") even if it doesn't exceed the gen's specs the eco throttle will not react fast enough and the gen will fault. But if there's already some load that has the gen a bit off idle and that same high load is applied the eco throttle may react in time and everything will work. I'd suspect it has to do with the incremental steps of the eco throttle: it may need to supply power in fixed Watt increments rather than truly linear. So it might be running at a 400 Watt capacity even though it's only supplying 250 Watts and that extra 150 Watts available is enough to hold for the merest fraction of a second while the eco throttle kicks in. Or maybe I've been imagining things all these years. If so, you'd think I could imagine something more interesting than that.

But for any load you know is going to have a high surge or heavy demand it's best to switch the eco throttle off before starting it. Curiously once it's started you can switch the eco back on and save some fuel. This is how I ran the water pump before I got the Outback.

machineman

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

Yes, the Generac 2000. I have one. The push prime gas cap leaks fuel if the tank is full due to heat expansion and it doesn't run if the tank is to low becuase the fuel line loops upward to the carb. Also if I load near the 2000W limit it doesn't perform. The price is right.....

mike95490

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

I've stalled my Honeywell 2000 a couple times, mostly in eco mode. If I start a heavy load (worm drive saw) or something, and just hold the trigger down, it will kill it every time, but if I just "blip" the trigger 1x and get blade spinning, then I can hit it again to make a cut. Motor starting is hard work for small gensets.

BB.

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

And large generators powering large surge current for otherwise small/intermittent loads use a whole bunch more fuel.

The more you work with off-grid power, the more it makes you appreciate what your utility does for you for a very small amount of money per month (off grid system, roughly, cost 10x what grid/utility power costs based on $/kWH pricing when taking all off-grid power costs into account vs energy used).

-Bill

maverick06

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

Update:
I ran the generator some more and really looked around inside it.

1) Inside the generator is very compact. I really clamped down on the nuts that hold the black air box (thing between the air filter and carb). I hope that there was an airleak around the carb, no such luck. Also of interest, these nuts hold the airbox and carb on, they both just slide around if you go to take it off. There are a lot of other tubes connecting the carb and black box so i didnt try to remove them. I got a couple shots of carb cleaner right into the carb this way though, but couldnt see anything past the choke.

2) I let the generator warm up for a few min and then let it sit with a 750 watt load on it for about 20 min. (on high power) Then I went and tried to power the sump pump. It was able to power it. Of note, on "high" when it gets a load the power flickers off as soon as the load is applied then comes back about a half second later. This probably isnt good for anything.... but i guess it cant be too terrible.

3) Then i went and tried the chest freezer (on high). it was able to do this as well. The chest freezer has a very high startup amp draw, I am not sure what, but it really bogs down this and other generators but running is only about 130 watts.

4) ECO mode is dead. if I switch to eco, with NO load, the overload light blinks on and off cutting power on and off. if you give it a load with eco engaged (up to about 750 watts) it will power it for a few seconds, then shut off for a few more and repeat, flickering on and off. Above about 750 watts it only flights on for maybe a second at a time. This would probably kill anything more than an electric heater.

5) I ran some seafoam through it to see if that helps anything, not at all (the gas is about 48 hours old at this point).

On "high" it does the bare minimum that I need it to do. I dont like how it flickers on high, and eco is worthless (so its more noisy and less efficient). Previous experience with "service" centers shows they are a ripoff and get me no where.

I will file my generac incident report on monday. maybe that will get me somewhere. If not, at least I have the pleasure of knowing that the video review I left on amazon will help people the generator does seem to be really nice.... if only it worked.... The build quality does indicate a good design, some thought was put into it. I dont know if I just have a bad generator, or if the same attention that was given to the exterior wasnt given to the electronics and the engine.... Its a shame, they got close...

Video of it not operating while at idle and in eco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QWn0vgMIH0

Spark plug (wire wrapped around the spark plug wire is for the hour meter)


Back panel open:


Air filter open:


choke lever/top of carb, behind the black box:



I may end up taking apart the carb eventually, but wont have time for a while. I will also have to see how the generac incident form goes.... I did look at the oil, at about 4 hours it was a disgusting mess... no wonder they say to change it at 5hours! At this point I am not going to put any more effort into it. I will let it sit in my garage for a while until I figure out what to do with it.

maverick06

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

the honeywell does have the push primer bulb. I think that the failure to start on that generator may simply be the low oil cutoff not opening up the ignition circuit until enough oil is splashed around in there. Its hard to start, but when running works fine. I never complained about it until I needed power right away one day (water coming into the basement).

Agreed, a honda would be nice, but if these guys claimed to work as they should I would be just fine. I dont demand as much from it as many of the off-grid / RV community does, so I wasnt looking for as much. A product should work as advertised.

If I was buying one now (I bought the honeywell nearly 2 years ago) I wouldnt buy either of these... i wouldnt buy a honda either.... there are lots of other inverter generators on the market that get great reviews. These arent either of them.... probably would get a champion, they are getting good reviews.

dwh

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

maverick06 wrote: »

I think that the failure to start on that generator may simply be the low oil cutoff not opening up the ignition circuit until enough oil is splashed around in there

I thought the same so I tested it on my HW by overfilling the oil to where I KNEW the sensor was completely immersed.

It made no difference to the hard starting problem.



My little $200 Champion 42431 is still cooking along. It's got over 600 hours on it now. Still have to add a bit of oil at every tankful, still starts first pull and still runs 14 hours on 1.2 gallons of fuel.

Only problem I've had was the spark arrestor clogged up.

techntrek

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

dwh, usually the oil sensors are pressure sensors, so covering it completely in oil I would expect it to act as if it were clogged with no pressure registered at all.

Cariboocoot

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

techntrek wrote: »

dwh, usually the oil sensors are pressure sensors, so covering it completely in oil I would expect it to act as if it were clogged with no pressure registered at all.

Hondas are oil-level sensors (no pressure lube in these small engines). If there's oil over the sensor, it will start. If there isn't, it shuts down. It is possible to have an oil level at 'critical' where it starts - then shuts off once some of it is splashed around inside and the level drops below the sensor. Not a good idea to over-fill a crankcase, btw. You can get splashing, oil blow-by, and foaming.

maverick06

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

I bought a spark plug tester and plugged it into the honeywell, it light up right away. The spark plug is certainly getting spark right away, so i guess that eliminated the oil level sensor. Removing the air filter (the only obstruction) didnt change anything.

I also gave it a shot of starter fluid and it fired up right away too. Now, i had tried a few pulls before that, so maybe it was just chance, but that seemed to do it.

My suspicion is that the carb takes a lot of pulls to get the fuel flowing through the jets and to the cylinder. Its the only thing left, its getting spark and air. If thats the case, nothing you can do. but crank away.

machineman

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

Did you fill the gas tank to top? I have that gen it is doesn't start for me unless the gas tank is full becuase the gas line loops back upward.

Cariboocoot

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

maverick06 wrote: »

My suspicion is that the carb takes a lot of pulls to get the fuel flowing through the jets and to the cylinder. Its the only thing left, its getting spark and air. If thats the case, nothing you can do. but crank away.

I would hazard a guess you are on the right track here; poorly designed intake system that does not create good vacuum at the low piston speed of rope-pulling. I bet it starts better if you pull as fast as you can (bring it up to where you can feel compression, reset the pull rope, then give it a very fast pull). Another thing to check is the choke restriction; it may not be sufficient.

I'd be really upset if I bought something like this new and it started that hard. My old B&S snow blower doesn't start that hard in frigid temps!

BB.

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

My other guess would be the fuel pump is not drawing/pressurizing correctly (if it has one--The Honda eu1000i/2000i have a fuel pump).

-Bill

icarus

Re: Generac IX2000 review - its junk - with video

Regardless of how a plug looks, or even visually "sparks", the finest thing to check (and change) is the plug! Small engines can be very quirky on plugs. I buy them by the case,, and keep a whole supply on hand.

I had a Honda fire pump once, that would strt and run fine,, for about five minutes. Checking the low oil sensor, cleaning the carb, over and over again, I tried a new plug. Bingo,, ran fine. It did the same thing two years later, with only service hours on it.

I should have realized it sooner, having seen similar things my whole li, but I was sort of assuming that Hondas were somehow immune,,, not!

Tony