Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #32
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    I got mine for under $200 USD. Nobody wants them used because they are unusual and large, and companies that need them want them new.

    Maybe I've been reading this thread wrong - I thought you were trying to power something inside your house that didn't match your utility's specifications. Now I think you've been talking about getting a grid-tie inverter to work which makes my suggestion useless.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • nsaspook
    nsaspook Solar Expert Posts: 396 ✭✭✭
    #33
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    I think your real problem will be finding a grid-tie inverter that can stay in sync to the huge changes in voltages and maybe even frequency of your unstable grid. The neutral/ground problem can be solved with the proper transformer. I would buy a 220vac Kill a Watt meter to log voltage and frequency for a few days for power data. This unit has UK style plugs but is the correct voltage. http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Electricity-Power-Energy-Monitor-Meter-KWH-Watt-NEW-/120576847751

    PS: What part of the Philippines do you live. I've traveled about much of the country. My wife’s family is from Mindanao(Davao) and the Visayas (Cebuano). We still have a small family beach house in Loon http://www.loon.gov.ph/ Cabilao Island near here.

    http://www.laestrella.ph/index.php/en/photo-gallery.html
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  • david3
    david3 Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭
    #34
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring
    nsaspook wrote: »
    I think your real problem will be finding a grid-tie inverter that can stay in sync to the huge changes in voltages and maybe even frequency of your unstable grid. The neutral/ground problem can be solved with the proper transformer. I would buy a 220vac Kill a Watt meter to log voltage and frequency for a few days for power data. This unit has UK style plugs but is the correct voltage. http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Electricity-Power-Energy-Monitor-Meter-KWH-Watt-NEW-/120576847751

    PS: What part of the Philippines do you live. I've traveled about much of the country. My wife’s family is from Mindanao(Davao) and the Visayas (Cebuano). We still have a small family beach house in Loon http://www.loon.gov.ph/ Cabilao Island near here.

    http://www.laestrella.ph/index.php/en/photo-gallery.html

    I think I'll probably be ok for the frequency. I believe it's monitored, and they start dropping loads if it gets down to 59.2Hz. Apparently our city is taking it's turn at the top of the load dropping schedule, and we've had a lot of short power outages lately due to this.

    Low voltage could be an issue, though. I've been checking the voltage with a volt meter. Last night it was 206V, and this morning it's back up to 226V. I have a feeling it's our neighborhood transformer that's overloaded -- at least in the evening.

    I'm in San Fernando City, La Union.
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  • david3
    david3 Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭
    #35
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    Well, I heard back from the utility and they're not going to allow any sort of normal grid-tie inverter for net metering. They said since the grid is defined as being high voltage transmission lines, I couldn't use a low voltage 220 volt inverter, and I'd need to be able to connect at something like 11,000 volts for them to allow it.

    Anyway, there's a Renewable Energy Board and Energy Regulatory Commission that's supposed to clarify the rules for net metering soon, so I guess I'll wait for that.
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  • david3
    david3 Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭
    #36
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring
    niel wrote: »
    in the pic you will note there are 3 wires atop the pole. (hard to see but 2 on top cross arm and 1 off the top of the pole itself) are there 3 wires atop the poles where you are?

    Here's a photo of the transformer in my neighborhood that I suspect I'm connected to.

    transformer-01.jpg

    Here's another one down the street.

    transformer-02.jpg

    I don't notice any grounding wire on the poles, but I might just not be seeing them.

    Here's some more photos of transformers around the city, in case you enjoy looking at pictures of transformers. :)

    transformer-03.jpg

    transformer-04.jpg

    transformer-05.jpg
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  • david3
    david3 Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭
    #37
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    And here's just one more.

    transformer-06.jpg
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #38
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    Wow, what a mess. I wouldn't want to get into a bucket and go up there for any amount of money. I assume a lot of the extra wiring is illegal taps?
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #39
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    ooohg. Smelling salts. Someone call 911. Every electrician on the forum just had a heart attack. :roll:

    Looks like ... well a total mess of very bad wiring that wouldn't pass inspection anywhere in the U.S. or Canada. But also like it's 220 VAC with no neutral or ground in sight.

    I wouldn't want to walk down the street under that tangle!
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #40
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    A lot of that mess is probably communications (telephone, cable TV). It's the JRAW philosophy - Just Run Another Wire. ;)
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  • david3
    david3 Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭
    #41
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    I'm not sure how much is illegal taps, techntrek, but I'd be surprised if there was much in these areas. Having said that, the system loss charge was 7% of my last bill.

    As ggunn says, some of the stuff lower down may be for telephone and cable tv. We've got two different phone companies in this city, and they each have their own infrastructure and poles.

    Likewise, when we had our electricity hooked up, we provided our own utility poles from the connection point to our house. And our neighbor has their own poles, and so on.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #42
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    I would be afraid to pick up my phone!
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #43
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    that's hard for me to see as what is what and maybe someone here more familiar may weed through that mess.

    it sounds like a run around when they would state they won't allow a ground connection unless at an 11kv point. that would also bypass your meter at 220v so maybe they want you to give them free solar energy? i would not let it drop if as you said there are provisions set forth from the Renewable Energy Board and Energy Regulatory Commission that you just need to have clarified. this will shed light on who may be giving misinformation in your country.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #44
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring

    If you were wondering, it ought to look more like this:
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  • david3
    david3 Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭
    #45
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring
    niel wrote: »
    that's hard for me to see as what is what and maybe someone here more familiar may weed through that mess.

    it sounds like a run around when they would state they won't allow a ground connection unless at an 11kv point. that would also bypass your meter at 220v so maybe they want you to give them free solar energy? i would not let it drop if as you said there are provisions set forth from the Renewable Energy Board and Energy Regulatory Commission that you just need to have clarified. this will shed light on who may be giving misinformation in your country.

    Yeah, I'll probably revisit it when they issue the rules. Hopefully soon.
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    If you were wondering, it ought to look more like this:

    That looks very safe and boring. :)
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #46
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    Re: Neutral & Ground Inverter Wiring
    david3 wrote: »
    The system loss charge was 7% of my last bill..

    Cripes! I hope Nova Scotia Power doesn't get wind of that one! If they do, their top brass will have to purchase their own banks to store their bonuses in!
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