Keeping water fresh

plongson
plongson Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
I've been wondering about this...Once you pump to an above ground tank or cistern, how do you keep the water fresh? I know that turning it over frequently is needed but how do you keep the reservoir from getting all funky?

What is the "Off the water Grid" trick?? Is there any good reading on the subject?
3500w solar, 800AH with Rolls Surrette, Magnum inverter, Midnite charge controller, Kubota 21kW diesel genset...private well...and just recently connected to city power for additional options...nice to have options 

Comments

  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    The Rainwater people use them and Cistern users have the same issue.

    Goggle " Ozone Generator " . You can rig up a small pump and circulate it with a venturi or just hang a blubber in the tank. Any Hot Tub type will work. Ebay has them , but be careful you get the right size and one with it's own air pump.

    The other option is to use a " UV " light sterilizer and treat it as you use it.

    Last is to use a dosing Pump and use chlorine ( bleach ).

    I like to size the tank so you turn over the water at least every week, a lot depends on your storage temperature and if it's kept in the dark ( no Light ) .
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    See my avatar? That is my rwater tank! It is so clean, we drink straight from the lake.

    Tony
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh
    icarus wrote: »
    See my avatar? That is my rwater tank! It is so clean, we drink straight from the lake.

    Tony

    Us too! :D

    But not everyone has six million gallons of melted glacier in their front yard. ;)
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    I use a triple O ozone generator. about 55w running
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    Although I can't recommend my method, you asked how the members here keep their cistern water fresh so I'll tell you what I do.

    I DO NOT have a glacial lake at our front door (tho I'm eating my heart out wishing I did). I have a stream, but our area was mined 150 years ago and I've found traces of mercury in our stream so we don't use THAT water for anything.

    Maybe once a week or so I put a "splash" of bleach into the cistern. This has worked just fine for a couple of decades. Anytime we consume this water, it is boiled (pasta, coffee, etc.).

    Mostly because we get only 50 gallons a day from our well we also have bottled drinking water delivered. The service is inexpensive since we rarely use more than 10 gallons a month and that includes supplying our icemaker.

    Rarely, a slight odor of clorine might be smelled while showering which means I've 'dosed' too much. It's never as much as a swimming pool and would smell more like the "city water" we have at our office.

    I visually inspect the water in the cistern every few days.

    This all may sound "gross" to others but understanding the water situation and consequences that others around the world endure, we live comfortably with ours.

    Phil

    (on edit) Our cistern is 1000 gallons and in a "clear" (milky white?) tank, but it is inside a building and therefore in the dark.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    Adding chlorine bleach will work fine. Done it with well many times. An initial shock treatment for a well that's been sitting can be very heavy: up to 8:1. You'll want to pump that through until the chlorine smell is gone. For regular maintenance you only need a small amount - around 5 ounces per 1000 gallons. It is still important to use and replenish the tank water, otherwise you may find you need more bleach. Flushing the tank once a year can help too; get a good swirl into the bottom and wash away any accumulating gunk. Watch out for green and black growth.
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    We collect rain water from roofs, and store it in largish above ground tanks. Clean the gutters well before rainy season, exclude the initial flow from going into the tanks, and use chlorine bleach. A shock can overcome much of the population of organic material from shich the problems usually occur.

    Have one tank which is little used, and still is clear after a few years of storage, but that tank was filled during aggressive storms where there was very little organic material in it.

    We use two string filters, and one carbon block filter inline, but have yet used any of this water for drinking -- haul drinking water from town.

    Would prob RO any drinking water.

    In general, try to keep a slight aroma of chloring in the stored water, and use dark or opaque tanks. Ideally, as Marc mentioned, tanks should be drained and blasted with water, etc periodically, but allowing very little organic material into the tank in the first place reduces the amount of treatment required.

    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    Something else you might want to consider: a ceramic water filter like this one; http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/8/KitchenBath/Plumbing/WaterFiltration/PRDOVR~0621015P/Rainfresh+Drinking+Water+System+1.jsp?locale=en

    "Traps and kills harmful bacteria (E. coli); traps cysts (Cryptosporidium, Giardia); reduces chlorine, taste, odour; and filters sediment, dirt, rust, silt as small as 0.3 micron."

    We use one of these for drinking/cooking water. The output is perfectly clean. Cheaper than buying bottled too.
  • plongson
    plongson Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    Well, many of your answers were kind'a what I thought.

    This project is really taking shape. We've been on the property on and off for about 7 years and have used the sweet well water all along but it really never saw the light of day, because it went straight to a pressure tank.

    Now this is my plan...I'm moving the water up the hill to a 500 gal tank under the new house, it goes to a booster pump and then to a pressure tank, then to the house. I'm going to try and turn over the water every few days and if it looks like it gonn'a sit, I'll give it a splash of chlorine. I think I'll have carbon and RO under the sink in the kitchen...

    Whadd'ya think?? Should work, huh??

    Did you say about 4 oz / 1000 gallons 'Coot?
    3500w solar, 800AH with Rolls Surrette, Magnum inverter, Midnite charge controller, Kubota 21kW diesel genset...private well...and just recently connected to city power for additional options...nice to have options 
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh
    plongson wrote: »
    This project is really taking shape. We've been on the property on and off for about 7 years and have used the sweet well water all along but
    Now this is my plan...I'm moving the water up the hill to a 500 gal tank under the new house, it goes to a booster pump and then to a pressure tank, then to the house.

    How far "up the hill" do you have to pump the water to get it to that 500 gal tank? What is the overall elevation from the surface of your well water, to your new pressure tank? Reason I'm asking, is that if there was any way possible, I'd bury a pipeline from a submersible pump in the well, up to the pressure tank and be done with it, and not have that "sweet well water" laying around in a 500 gal tank.
  • plongson
    plongson Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    The well is 380' and the water is at 266' with the pump 100' below that. I have a 3/4 hp 10gpm 240v 1 phase pump bring it up using a 24kw Kubota diesel. I'm just going to pump every few days to minimize the use of the diesel...
    3500w solar, 800AH with Rolls Surrette, Magnum inverter, Midnite charge controller, Kubota 21kW diesel genset...private well...and just recently connected to city power for additional options...nice to have options 
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh
    plongson wrote: »
    The well is 380' and the water is at 266' with the pump 100' below that. I have a 3/4 hp 10gpm 240v 1 phase pump bring it up using a 24kw Kubota diesel. I'm just going to pump every few days to minimize the use of the diesel...

    Oh wow, that sucks!:cry:
    Too many of us, me included, take our easy to get at supply of "sweet well water", for granted. My well is about 250 feet down over the hill, but with only an overall lift of roughly 20 feet, I'm able to "suck" it up over the hill with my almost 60 year old twin cylinder piston pump.
    Good luck with your project.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    That's some significant pumping going on. The cost to do that from solar would be pretty high, even with a dedicated solar-powered pump (they don't come cheap). Your plan is probably more practical than it might appear to some.

    I've never had good luck with RO water filters. Got a brand new one uninstalled at the moment because it physically won't fit in the space available. It's a low water waste unit and has a pump on it. Never had good luck with water softeners either. To each their own, as they say.

    The chlorine ration is 5 oz. to 1000 gallons for maintenance, but that's a guideline and you may want more or less to suit. Some water has less potential for nasty things. A filtered pitcher of water at our old place would grow green slime in a day if left unrefrigerated.
  • SCharles
    SCharles Solar Expert Posts: 123 ✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    We have a 2000 gal. cistern we use for domestic water supply. It used to be filled by rain directed off the roof of the house; now it is filled from our well.

    We use a reverse osmosis filter unit for all consumable water. Showers, etc., we use water straight from the cistern.

    Every few years, I drain the cistern and clean it out [get down in it and do it by hand]. Even with a sealed tank and clean well water, over a few yr. period it still gets stuff lying in the bottom of the tank. I have gone as long as four years without doing this, however.

    When I decide to clean, I let the water level drop in the tank, down to a foot or so deep. We have a flowing well, so it is no problem to fill the tank back up, all 2000 gal., all at once. The well pump only comes on when I turn it on, it is not automatic, so I can determine when and how much water goes in the tank.

    I know some folks in warmer climates, like southern New Mexico, who use cisterns for all their water [some of them catch rain, some use a well]. There are quite a few such households down there, I've seen them. Every household I know plans on an annual draining and cleaning of their cistern. They get dust, etc., washed into the tank over the course of a year and simply plan to clean it out regularly [preferably before the advent of any "rainy" season].
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    I'm in somewhat the same boat. 3000gal cistern catching rainwater. I haven't gone in and cleaned it in years...too lazy, it's cramped, need a truckfull of water to re-fill. I'd thought about a pool filter circulating the contents a few times a year with the discharge used to hose the sides and bottom. Stir it all up then let the filter remove the sediment. Any thoughts|?

    Ralph
  • SCharles
    SCharles Solar Expert Posts: 123 ✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    I'm in somewhat the same boat. 3000gal cistern catching rainwater. I haven't gone in and cleaned it in years...too lazy, it's cramped, need a truckfull of water to re-fill. I'd thought about a pool filter circulating the contents a few times a year with the discharge used to hose the sides and bottom. Stir it all up then let the filter remove the sediment. Any thoughts|?

    Ralph

    I had this very thought back when we used rainwater. I went to a swimming pool equipment store and talked to a guy about various filtration units. The ones I zeroed in on used a container of fine sand and a pump with some back-flow valves and etc. I ended up not getting one because I would have had to situate it outdoors [or in a little shed or something] and the freezing temp's much of the yr. would have made it a real chore. I ended up making my own custom sand filter but it really did not work so well, the sand would catch the sediment just fine but then would be blocked from that same sediment and have to be cleaned out, either with new sand or that sand removed and washed. Lots of labor for my 2000 gal and yours is even larger. If you live in an area where freezing is not a big or frequent problem, you could make your own filter with perhaps a 50-gal polypropylene or other barrel, valves and etc. and sand. Mine was smaller due to space limitations. I am an inveterate do-it-myself type but I finally gave up. I did not look into other types of pool filter units and there may be some that would fit your bill.

    Note: it takes quite a bit of pumping and circulating to clean several thousand gallons of water. Plus to get the sediment you really have to agitate the water fairly well to get the stuff that sifts down to the floor.
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    I think one of the other reasons I don't clean my tank regularly is that it's steel. Once I cleaned the molasses out of it (it's previous job) and cleaned the residue off the walls I painted the inside with foundation coating. Yuck! Stink! Needed outside airsource or would not be here today! I fear what I'll find in the way of flaked coating, scabby rust and such. The tank was a pressurized moloasses tank at a feed mill and the steel is 3/8inch thick, so there's a lot of years of corrosion before replacement is needed. The tank's been in the ground for over 25 years so far, fingers crossed.

    Someday, maybe not soon, but someday...

    Ralph
  • jeffkruse
    jeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    Since we are talking about this subject, I will be moving into a house that has a 2000 gallon cement tank. It will be filled by clean city water. It is “sealed” (the cover just lifts off). The water goes through a cheap mechanical filter cartridge then is pumped into a pressure tank and then into the house.

    The cement tank reservoir is needed because the city water is unreliable. I am guessing but we probably will use about 200 gallons a day. With that much/little turnaround is there anything I should do or worry about. It will be our drinking water.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Keeping water fresh

    I think one of the problems with cleaning tanks is some of you folks are leaving them empty. Maybe a few inches of water in the heat of summer? We have 14,000 gallons of tanks and from my days living aboard a world cruising yacht we learned that the most important time to treat a tank is when it is sitting empty.
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