A little disappointed

Seven

We moved into the house that we were working on for the last four months at the end of last month. We got the first electric bill and it was almost exactly the same as the last house in July of last year. You may be asking yourself what was I expecting. I was expecting a good bit less. Every appliance is new. I am running a hybrid water heater. When the new roof went on, a thermal barrier was put down instead of the regular tar paper. Over half of the light bulbs are LED, the other half are CFLs. The inside AC unit is only two years old. The list goes on, low flow showerheads, new ceiling fans, dedicated circuits for some electrical plugs, any wall I went into got new insulation, I downsized my tv, I have not even set up my computer, powerstrips on everything.

I know it is hotter this year than last. Im in Texas. The old house had a gas fired water heater, but the summer bill was only like $20. The AC compressor locked up last week, so maybe it was taking extra power while it was on its last leg. This house does get cooler that the last one. The doors were open more, with the AC on, while we were moving. This house has one of those smart meters and I have heard that the bill would be higher. I guess I am just babbling on, but with all the conservation I was expecting a noticable drop. The only good thing is that our rate has dropped to $.09 from $.11. We used 2350kwh in the last month. Same size house, but 4 adults live there and two of them are home all day. Someone has to let the dogs out.
I had planned to replace the windows as part of the remodel, but with everything going over budget, not expecting to have to put a roof on in the middle of it, and now the AC issue, it will be next year before I even think of replacing them.

I know I need to reduce my usage and I am working on that, I was just expecting more from what we had already done.

Ok, I'm done ranting.

waynefromnscanada

Re: A little disappointed

78 Kwh / day? That's an average hourly usage of 3 1/4 KWH! Roughly what many people living off grid use in a whole 24 hour day! Unless your AC is sucking up the majority of that energy, there needs to be a major shake-up in your household.

Cariboocoot

Re: A little disappointed

Totally with Wayne on this. 78 kW hours per day is triple what our old all-electric house used - in Winter.

Was some of this still during renovation? Maybe some air compressors and saws running?
Of course we should not judge based on only one month, but that usage figure is frighteningly high.

Seven

Re: A little disappointed

I hope it its mostly the ac. Last year the winter months were like a quarter of that kwh. It is 106° here and the house is about 75° inside.

Frxddy

Re: A little disappointed

It's the water heater. You used gas before, electric now. That one thing alone will make a huge difference. I don't care that it's the new fangled one, it'll still cost far more to run it than the gas did. *Only* $20 in Gas could easily be $60 in electricity.

But, yes, 2,350 KWH is HUGE!!

Seven

Re: A little disappointed

coot
The big house we used to live in was staggering when it came to the usage. That was one of the reasons we moved into a rental for the last couple of years. A $678 bill will do that to a guy. 6 people, dual ac units, pool,2 story,12 ft ceilings and 2800 sq ft. nightmare,i want to say I remember a 4800kwh summer month. So I am headed in the right direction, I just have miles to go before I sleep.

BB.

Re: A little disappointed

Yea, hunt down that 3kW average load (you may hit 6kW for periods of time).

A whole house power monitor may be very handy.

Shut down circuit by circuit until you find those that knock a kW at a time off your load.

-Bill

Seven

Re: A little disappointed

Bill
I plan on getting a ted to start with, then going more specific. If there was no one at home during the day I am sure it would go down, but that is the situation I am in right now. I am really hoping that the old outside ac unit was pulling an outrageous amount of power before it went out.[PHP][/PHP]

Solar Guppy

Re: A little disappointed

For AC in Texas @106F, that's a LOW bill. Don't listen to anyone outside the sunbelt, they have no idea what kwh is normal down here.

And No, its not new hybrid HW tank, in this heat be lucky to use more than 10 bucks in electric and on a btu basis, the new hybirds use less btus and cost less than gas to operate

if your looking for lower bills, your going to have to go higher SEER on the heatpump, but 2300 khw is low for Texas in the summer

Cariboocoot

Re: A little disappointed

What do you people refrigerate the interior of your houses to? -20?
So if we just sever the power lines to the southern states the energy crisis will be over, eh?

According to the Texas Public Utilities Commission the average use is 1000 kW hours per month, not 2350. Obviously more is used in Summer, especially a broiler like this year's. I sympathize with the OP's disappointment; after making all that conservation effort his bill is just the same. But I did say not to judge on one month alone.

The real horror is the knowledge that every time we shave our bills down the utilities get their rates increased because they're not making as much profit. Pretty soon it will make off-grid look economically viable.

solarvic

Re: A little disappointed

Frxddy wrote: »

It's the water heater. You used gas before, electric now. That one thing alone will make a huge difference. I don't care that it's the new fangled one, it'll still cost far more to run it than the gas did. *Only* $20 in Gas could easily be $60 in electricity.

But, yes, 2,350 KWH is HUGE!!

No It not the waterheater. I have a GE hybred geo spring and have only used about 370 KWH since last Oct 15. Translates to about $37.00 since last oct 15. I even turned it up to 140 f to get the cooling to help keep my kitchen cooler. :Dsolarvic:D

techntrek

Re: A little disappointed

I agree, it ain't the electric water heater. I have a standard electric water heater, two 2 ton A/Cs (one is a heat pump for upstairs in the winter), electric stove, electric ovens, 450 foot well pump. My daily average over the last year is around 40 kw-h per day. That 1000 kwh per month mentioned 2 posts ago works out to 33 kw-h per day.

Seven

Re: A little disappointed

Thanks for all the input guys.
My AC has a 4 ton heatpump unit on it. The new outside part is 13 seer and the inside is a 12 seer.
We try to keep the house around 77*. It runs most of the time. Such is life in Texas. With the humidity, any warmer and you start sticking to things.
I have about 5" of insulation in the attic and plan on getting that up to a foot before winter, all three days of it.
When we have cooler weather, the usage drops alot. As far as cost goes, last month was $219, and our low bill last year was $78. It is just hot here. Next week the cold day is supposed to be 105*.
This house was built in the 60s so I am sure I have a long way to go for insulation and such, but I will say that if we had not done everything we did to upgrade, insulate, and conserve, I would probably would not been shocked by the bill. Like I said before, our big house was twice the usage. Anything below that is still going in the right direction. I was just expecting more.

One more LED bulb, one less hour the TV is on, one less meal cooked, one less load of laundry, these are the things I can work on now. It is a process. In reality the A/C is the big ticket. The huge draw. We have relatives that stay with us and we will keep them comfortable during the day. It is not an option. They have many years on them and keeping their quality of life is more important than saving $50 on the electric bill, or even $200. Could I ask them to not run their computers and TVs and radios and the crock pot at the same time? Sure. But I won't. The TV that is on in the room that no one is in does bug me, but in a few years I will be wishing they were still around. I have taken huge steps to be less dependant on the grid, and although I have a long way to go, I will get there some day. If anything this will give me time to "play" with my solar stuff and have some fun. Putting one circuit on the equipment I already have will cost nothing. As my system grows I will add other circuits to it. I understand that I cannot keep the same usage and be solar only, but every bit helps.

Sorry for the long post.

Photowhit

Re: A little disappointed

Seven wrote: »

.
I have about 5" of insulation in the attic and plan on getting that up to a foot before winter, ...

That will make a difference, might speak to someone locally about vapor barriers under the house. also have the electric company come out and do an energy audit, typically they are free, might wait until winter for this and have them thermal photo your house to determine leaks, normally this works better in winter, I think.

SCharles

Re: A little disappointed

Ok. The relatives living there is probably a big part of things. You didn't mention that before, but your description makes me think that their usage of electricity is a big deal. We have an off-grid home, PV only for power, and we found from day one [way, way back in 1985] that our home was not a democracy when guests are here. You can say fifty times, do no run the hair dryer after sun goes down, and with the very first person out of a shower after sundown, the sounds of a hair dryer come drifting in from the bathroom.

We have battery-backup and must watch their health [battery health]. I am not shy a single iota about hitting the circuit breaker to the bathroom if I hear a hair dryer. That is only one example.

Understand, in our case, with photovoltaics, I explain they can use the hair dryer if the sun is still shining. So, it isn't pure hell, though trying to convince someone that not using it is not equal to extreme deprivation is not often successful.

You, OP, don't have the solar-electric offgrid thing but the philosophy is similar. It is not my family or my elec. bill, but I find it unreasonable for someone to refuse to adapt such as in this case.

However, I am just blowing smoke as it is your house and if you are ok with it, it's fine. I do, though, predict your bill won't go down much.

solar_dave

Re: A little disappointed

Solar Guppy wrote: »

For AC in Texas @106F, that's a LOW bill. Don't listen to anyone outside the sunbelt, they have no idea what kwh is normal down here.

And No, its not new hybrid HW tank, in this heat be lucky to use more than 10 bucks in electric and on a btu basis, the new hybirds use less btus and cost less than gas to operate

if your looking for lower bills, your going to have to go higher SEER on the heatpump, but 2300 khw is low for Texas in the summer

Ditto, we had a 119 kWh day last week with house guests, swimming pool water fall running all day, Volt getting charged multiple times, lights left on, door left open ...

dhsola

Re: A little disappointed

Central A/C units cost a lot to run, period. And especially when the thermostat is set at 75 degrees with the doors open and a clunky compressor.

Our 25 year old A/C unit burns about 2 kWh each time it cycles on with the thermostat set at 82 degrees and average outside summer daytime temps 108 - 112. Add humidity and/or dew point much above 20 and the A/C's have to work even harder.

One of the biggest cost reduction for an A/C? Raise the temp on the thermostat and add fans for feels-like-comfort! (Some call that "acclimating").

Just be grateful you're only paying $0.09/kWh (at present). We pay $0.12 - $0.13/kWh "baseline". Usage over 1300 kWh/month (271 kWh/month during the winter) and the rate graduates as high as $0.30/kWh!! (at .30 I'd buy stock in the electric company)

..summer is almost fini..

Electricsuperduty

Re: A little disappointed

My usage will 2.5 x in summer with ac and pool filter it's a nasty consumption of electricity. So I'd average it out a few months before I let that be the final thought

Seven

Re: A little disappointed

I went back and looked at the 12 month review on my electric bill.what I see is that from september through may, I am below 1000kwh. December was only about 250/300. June July and august were above the 2kwh mark.

With all of the replies and more looking into it, it really isn't bad for my AO. I will probably be upset this winter when the electric heat kicks in, but that will probably only last a week.

Thanks for all the replies.

techntrek

Re: A little disappointed

As someone else said, your permanent house guests certainly explain your useage.

niel

Re: A little disappointed

i'm going to agree with sg on this one as the average high for your area in july is normally 93 degrees and you guys are staying over 100 for most of the month. that extra temperature differential will spike your electric usage unless you up the temperature the thermostat is set to by the same increase. the idea is to be comfortable and you say you are doing better than before with these high of temps with a similar bill i'd say is doing good. to truly compare you would need similar conditions that you are used to.

icarus

Re: A little disappointed

5" of insulation in the attic! And 100F outside? 5" is like R-15-20, you need to add as much as you can up to ~R-40!

I certainly am more of an "expert" on heat loss in cold climes, but surly the heat gain from only 5" of insulation is adding dramatically to your cooling load.

Tony.

Seven

Re: A little disappointed

I imagine the insulation was thicker in the sixties, when the house was built.

Frxddy

Re: A little disappointed

solarvic wrote: »

No It not the waterheater. I have a GE hybred geo spring and have only used about 370 KWH since last Oct 15. Translates to about $37.00 since last oct 15. I even turned it up to 140 f to get the cooling to help keep my kitchen cooler. :Dsolarvic:D

Very cool! I did not know they could use that little. I only know one person that has one & he isn't getting very good performance. (Maybe because the heater is in a cool basement?) I keep forgetting how the internet makes us all seem in one place. That 370 KWH would be $66 here. And 5" of insulation blows me away! We had 12" for years, but as of this year we have 24" overhead. I recently read that 70% of AC cost goes out the ceiling. Adding to that 5" might be money well spent.

Seven

Re: A little disappointed

We have the Geo Spring set to E-heat only and I have turned the temp down to 120* and no one at the house has run out of hot water yet. I may bump it down to 110* for the next month or so.
It is supposed to be 115* here today so that should keep the water hot enough by itself. lol
Side note... I really liked the idea that the side effect of the heating of water is the cool air it produces. The reality is that it runs so little that it makes almost no difference in the air around it unless I box off about 27 cubic feet. If we used hot water to wash clothes it would probably be a different story.

I hadn't even thought about putting 24" of insulation in, but it makes sense. The thicker the coat.......

BB.

Re: A little disappointed

And cover your ducts with heaped insulation, if they are in the attic.

-Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: A little disappointed

Maybe you folks down South need to adopt the Cariboo Insulating Standard (CIS):
R40 for ceiling/attic
R19 minimum for walls

No, I'm not joking.

solar_dave

Re: A little disappointed

Yep I agree, on the new building I did high density fiberglass bat @ R21 and 2 one inch layers of polystyrene at R3.85 per layer for a total of about R28+ for the walls, and blew in about 2ft in the attic which has to be R50 or better.