geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

rollandelliott
rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
Just tried to get a home owners insurance quote and they said solar is a no go. What the heck!

They are on my black list, I dont' care how cute that Gecko is.

Comments

  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    Just tried to get a home owners insurance quote and they said solar is a no go. What the heck!

    They are on my black list, I dont' care how cute that Gecko is.

    I found Geico way expensive for everything, find an independent agent and try Travelers
  • The Only Sarge
    The Only Sarge Solar Expert Posts: 164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    I ran over a green lizard this morning. He was still flopping around so I backed up and ran over him again.
  • SolarLurker
    SolarLurker Solar Expert Posts: 122 ✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    GEICO homeowners insurance is actually underwritten by travelers, I have Home Insurance with GEICO (travelers) and they insured both my commercial solar system and residential. My yearly premium increased seven dollars. I have found GEICO's costs reasonable and have been happy with their service.

    Individual results may vary. and Insurance companies are structured differently in each state. .
  • The Only Sarge
    The Only Sarge Solar Expert Posts: 164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    GEICO homeowners insurance is actually underwritten by travelers, I have Home Insurance with GEICO (travelers) and they insured both my commercial solar system and residential. My yearly premium increased seven dollars. I have found GEICO's costs reasonable and have been happy with their service.

    Individual results may vary. and Insurance companies are structured differently in each state. .
    Not all GEICO homeowners is underwritten by Travlers. GEICO utilizes several carriers from a pool.
  • snuffy
    snuffy Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    Just tried to get a home owners insurance quote and they said solar is a no go. What the heck!

    They are on my black list, I dont' care how cute that Gecko is.

    They wouldn't insure your home because you have solar or they wouldn't insure your solar system?
  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    they don't insure homes in north carolina that use alternative energy like solar or wood furnaces.

    i'm sure they will change thier mind once the rest of the world realizes how cool solar is!
  • Slappy
    Slappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    check on "Erie insurance" they have good policies for auto and home. but dont know about the solar part of it. they are a major company that dont advertise like the others do.
  • SCharles
    SCharles Solar Expert Posts: 123 ✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    I have Geico for my pickup truck, and I suppose because of that I am frequently lobbied to add homeowner's insurance. I finally gave them the info and their result was that they could not quote me insurance for my house because....wait for it.....I do not have central heating. I asked the nice woman on the phone what exactly would pass the test for "central heating," and she could not expand on it at all. She explained that they--Geico--did not make the rules but were really just sort of brokers for other co's selling homeowner's. ["Broker" is my term as I don't recall her exact words describing things.]

    I asked whether having something like elec. baseboard heating in each room would qualify [I don't have that and do not want it, just picking her brain out of curiosity] and she said, no. It has to be a central system.

    Weird.
  • Fatawan
    Fatawan Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    Geico shot me down because I own a Doberman
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    FWIW - I wouldn't own a Shelter insurance policy if they paid me each year, they dropped my auto.... be cause I vacation in Florida.

    Yes really! They say they don't insure autos in Florida, I explained that I was on an extended vacation, 6 weeks and would return the end of January, they cancelled me, and having not enough info to buy insurance in Missouri, while in Florida, I had to return.... the day after Christmas.

    Only thing worse than Shelter would be insurance regulators in Missouri, that's over 5 years ago and they still have not responded.

    Speaking of insurance, I went without a car for 8 months, getting ready for a bicycle trip back to Florida.(I had a truck that was vandalized while I was replacing the head and decided just to do with out until I came back) So when I buy insurance since I didn't have insurance(or a vehicle) they throw me into the uninsured motorist group and I pay the highest rate possible for 6 months. Insurance is really gotten to be a big game.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    I feel for ya Photowit

    I have 2 cars, a truck and 2 motorcycles insured in AZ, I let one motorcycle lapse cause I wasn't able to use it or get it qualified for emissions and did not "de-insuring" with the state (like I would know that is a requirement). The state required that I get a SR22 financial responsibility policy on that MC. What a pain in the ... :confused::confused: It was like I was a drunk driver, jeez!
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    Kind of wandering off the path here, folks.
    If you're not careful I'll start relating horror stories of ICBC*! :p

    *Insurance Corporation of British Columbia; government-run monopoly.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    Kind of wandering off the path here, folks.
    If you're not careful I'll start relating horror stories of ICBC*! :p

    ....Oh 'Coot could we have just one... Please...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    Photowhit wrote: »
    ....Oh 'Coot could we have just one... Please...

    Government-run insurance corporation underwriting all basic (liability) insurance on all vehicles in B.C. Also "offers" supplemental insurance (fire/theft/collision/comprehensive).
    Use your imagination. You may never sleep again. :p

    The whole issue of insurance companies and their attitudes/policies towards homes equipped with RE is a really good topic, I think. :D
  • chevenstein
    chevenstein Solar Expert Posts: 100 ✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    Coot: agreed, this could be a _very_ interesting read.

    I know a fair bit about how business software works in other industries, so I'd venture to guess insurance is like any other: it's all in their software's risk assessment business rules. The representative you're speaking with has to ask you some questions (how many bedrooms? baths? what kind of heat?, does it have a wood stove? etc), and will feed your responses through the underwriting system. It may come back with more questions: say you recently put an addition on the house and your responses don't match their records, which are derived from public sources like tax roles and private sources like insurance risk assessment databases.

    Based on these data and your personal financial history as well as insurance history (there are private databases of your claim history and general known "riskiness", legal in most states) they will assign you as risk and calculate the premium from that. Now, if they don't ask if you have solar and you don't volunteer it you are likely violating the disclosure agreement in the policy contract, but if they can't ask because their software doesn't understand how to rate it then where are you? What if you mention it and the representative keying it in doesn't know how to code it, so they ignore it?

    Often times as your life style gets more...unique you will run into trouble real fast if they learn more about it. For example, I know someone who got into a situation with his business' general liability insurance because they saw a picture of his crane on the internet. They never asked him if he had a crane; he salvages heavy machinery and has dozens of pieces of equipment that he uses for his business and I'm sure if they had asked he would have supplied them a list, but they didn't and instead got all hot and bothered when they saw it. Admittedly, this is a commercial situation, but the principal applies to any of us with "alternative" dwellings or hobbies that might involve ... a crane ... and who are wanting to carry normal homeowners insurance.

    At the end of the day the insurance company is in it for the shareholders and you're probably stuck whether you volunteer information or not (either could cause them to deny a claim).
  • chevenstein
    chevenstein Solar Expert Posts: 100 ✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    PS - If it isn't clear from my rambling, lengthy somewhat off topic post, my points is that I wonder how common it is for insurance companies to even collect (ask) about solar equipment and how long it will be before many of them do.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    In our area (SF Bay Area), over the last 10 years or so, insurance companies have been coming out and actually inspecting electrical mains, buildings, trees on property, etc. and documenting the property.

    We had no issues. A friend, they told him to paint and replace gutters. And his next door neighbor, they told them to cut down some large dead and dying pine trees (which made my neighbor very happy--This was probably a $1,500-$2,000+ job--and the insurance company would have dropped them if they did not to the trees).

    As far as I know, these were all different insurance companies... So, I would expect "unusual" things like solar panels to not be ignored any longer. What they will do with that information--don't know.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    Of course I live in a different country with different rules and laws but ...
    Our insurance company has never balked at insuring a 50+ year old log cabin in the middle of nowhere, with or without solar panels. Now, we've not made any claims; that's a whole 'nother issue.

    They're very glad to take your money, as long as you don't expect anything back.

    Reminds me of that Monty Python sketch with "Mr. Devious" the insurance agent and the "never pay policy" which "clearly states that no claim made by you will be paid, which is all right so long as you never make a claim."

    I also rather suspect that insurance companies understand solar power systems about as well as the average nine-year-old understands brain surgery. :roll:
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    I was actually quite impressed with my insurance company when adding my install to an existing policy. They ask 3 things

    How much was the install?
    Were permits pulled?
    Was a licensed electrician used?
  • Dr. Strangelove
    Dr. Strangelove Solar Expert Posts: 49
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    Here's a couple of TL;DR insurance stories for the terminally bored:

    When I bought my house out here, it was a bit rough around the edges - fair for a 60 year old building. But nothing too bad as a fixer-upper. So I did some shopping around and got my home owners' insurance from Farmers. After a month or two, they sent some slack jawed mouth breather over to look at the property. At which point I got a call from an agent asking questions like "when do you plan to fill the pot hole in your driveway" and "what are you going to do about the crack in the [masonry] wall"? To which I responded: "I dunno, the house has been there for 60 years, I don't see any reason to rush anything, and what crack in what wall?" And they said, "you know, the crack, in the wall." Apparently their on-the-scene genius was not terribly specific, so their agent couldn't be specific, but they expected me to be specific. Subsequently, they regretted to inform me that they could no longer insure me because I was not psychic. And my response was "... you, I can get insurance from somewhere else". Which I did, from Allstate, minutes later, who haven't peppered me with stupid, pointless questions. And they cost about the same. The pot hole got patched with 5k psi concrete when it became an annoyance, and I am doing major retaining wall construction to reduce ground movement over the next 60 years. And the "not stupid" insurance company makes easy money.

    Something similar happened with my old house that I put on the market at just the wrong time, and sat empty for a few years. My other insurance company, USAA, called me and said "You know, your house is empty" and I said "Yeah, there's a lot less to insure." And they said "Yeah, you're going to have to get 'Fire Insurance' - it covers a lot less, but costs twice as much." Behind that demand was the threat that my mortgage bank, also USAA, requires insurance, so they thought they had me over a barrel. You know those houses with nobody in them, so there are no slip and fall accidents, no kitchen fires, hell, there's no personal property to bother to replace, that's the kind of property that needs extra expensive, lower coverage insurance. So I told USAA "... you!", I paid off the mortgage in cash and I dropped their insurance. Swift move, geniuses, now you lost two accounts with your MBA-driven "the customer is always ready for plucking" greed. The house has since been sold, much more quickly and easily because there was no annoying mortgage bank involved, and now the insurance is someone else's problem.

    What I get out of these interactions with insurance companies is that some of them think they own you, and can tell you what to do - like they're doing you a favor. Decisions are made by faceless people who could not care less, and handed down to drones who are incapable of independent thought. They are greedy and inflexible, looking for the 8th decile or lower, and trying to maximize their financial leverage over you. I wonder if a job requirement is lack of a soul? I can't wait to add a 10kW PV grid tied/off grid capable system to my insurance policy. Just like I can't wait for another root canal operation.
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    I like having an independent agent, the Volt is still plated in Michigan and the Insurance company call the agent wondering why it doesn't show up in the AZ database, she calmly told them it would be registered in AZ by Sept. when the MI registration runs out. I don't have to call around for best price and find out they won't insure for some stupid reason.

    Rosanne is a real deal for me!
  • simmtron
    simmtron Solar Expert Posts: 87 ✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    One thing good (or bad) depends on how you look at it, They cannot deny you insurance, everyone pay the same rate (depending on years driving and accident record). You know if you have an accident or 2 or 3 or 4 what you r rate will be. They cannot drop you like private insurance does. As insurance IS mandatory, it is not a bad system. Lived in North Vancouver for 20 years until moving to Mexico. Now insurance in Mexico is another thing!. Nobody here (almost) has house insurance for fire because almost all houses are built of block and they don't burn down. Even with solar on the roof, the roof is concrete.

    I am referring to ICBC insurance company only, it is a a government run company, and they cannot deny insurance like private insurance companies DO.
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    simmtron wrote: »
    One thing good (or bad) depends on how you look at it, They cannot deny you insurance, everyone pay the same rate (depending on years driving and accident record). You know if you have an accident or 2 or 3 or 4 what you r rate will be. They cannot drop you like private insurance does. As insurance IS mandatory, it is not a bad system. Lived in North Vancouver for 20 years until moving to Mexico. Now insurance in Mexico is another thing!. Nobody here (almost) has house insurance for fire because almost all houses are built of block and they don't burn down. Even with solar on the roof, the roof is concrete.

    i believe that insurance companies can deny you or drop you, at least local to me i believe they can. it is mandatory to have insurance here, but not for the insurance company to carry or to keep you as there are other insurance companies you can go to or you can elect not to drive if nobody accepts you, as driving here is a privilege and not a right. they can also elect to raise your rates out of sight, if they keep you, for any reason they wish as long as it does not violate any laws. most state governments here in the states are friendly to the insurance industry and not the customers forced onto the insurance. you can read between these lines and draw a real conclusion, but i'll not pursue it further as it goes beyond the scope of this forum to do so.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    Niel;

    simmtron is referring to ICBC auto insurance here in British Columbia which I'd mentioned as a nightmare of bad management. A failed attempt on my part to gently hint at the need to keep the thread focused on insurance in respect to RE installs on homes.

    Next time I shall be blunt like a sledgehammer. :p

    Try to keep on the subject of insuring with respect to RE installs everyone. That includes me! :roll:
  • a0128958
    a0128958 Solar Expert Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    Just tried to get a home owners insurance quote and they said solar is a no go. What the heck!

    They are on my black list, I dont' care how cute that Gecko is.

    Try calling AMICA. This is my home owners insurance company. When I had an 8 KW / 36 panel solar system installed, it became covered as part of my policy, without any cost increase. Key requirement is that it's a permanent part of the structure.

    Best regards,

    Bill
  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!

    wound up going with traveler's insurance they consider a ground mount array an accessorial structure (like a tool shed) and cover up to 35,000 in damages. No rate increase either.
  • jeffkruse
    jeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    a0128958 wrote: »
    Try calling AMICA. This is my home owners insurance company. When I had an 8 KW / 36 panel solar system installed, it became covered as part of my policy, without any cost increase. Key requirement is that it's a permanent part of the structure.

    Best regards,

    Bill

    ++++++++1 for AMICA.
  • jagec
    jagec Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    Something similar happened with my old house that I put on the market at just the wrong time, and sat empty for a few years. My other insurance company, USAA, called me and said "You know, your house is empty" and I said "Yeah, there's a lot less to insure." And they said "Yeah, you're going to have to get 'Fire Insurance' - it covers a lot less, but costs twice as much." Behind that demand was the threat that my mortgage bank, also USAA, requires insurance, so they thought they had me over a barrel. You know those houses with nobody in them, so there are no slip and fall accidents, no kitchen fires, hell, there's no personal property to bother to replace, that's the kind of property that needs extra expensive, lower coverage insurance.

    ...well, those unoccupied homes that aren't getting sold *do* have a tendency to mysteriously burst into flames. And I'm sure that back in the day before insurance companies got wise to the game, it was probably a shrewd premium-reducing move to put minimal "fire insurance" on said homes in the months before their surprise barbecue act. Insurance companies always feel more comfortable when they think that YOU are invested in the preservation of the asset that they're insuring.

    Which is why I was happy to hear that my roof-mounted solar panels were considered part of the "permanent structure", and that they'd be covered up to the limits of my existing policy. This is with Liberty Mutual. Of the many groups that I had to deal with to get the system installed (equipment vendors, permitting officials, contractors etc), they were the most reasonable and professional.
  • TnAndy
    TnAndy Solar Expert Posts: 249 ✭✭
    Re: geico doesn't insure homes with solar panels!
    Slappy wrote: »
    check on "Erie insurance" they have good policies for auto and home. but dont know about the solar part of it. they are a major company that dont advertise like the others do.


    Been with Erie 20 years, and can't find anyone to beat them ( and I shop regular ). Had one claim in that time, washer flooded kitchen/living room....they paid quick and fair.

    On auto, I like the fact it's a one year deal instead of most that are 6mo.